• Hi Guest!
    If you appreciate British Car Forum and our 25 years of supporting British car enthusiasts with technical and anicdotal information, collected from our thousands of great members, please support us with a low-cost subscription. You can become a supporting member for less than the dues of most car clubs.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

No Spark

Share this page

TulsaFred

TulsaFred

Jedi Warrior
Country flag
Offline
A couple weeks ago I ripped out my old wiring harness in the bugeye.
In order to run the car I ran a jumper with aligator clips for the fuse block to the coil (the terminal opposite the one that runs to the distributor).
I pull the starter solenoid under the bonnet and it cranks and starts no problem.

Until today.

Went to start and nothing.

I pulled the number one plug and layed the electrode against the block and I don't see any spark jumping the gap.

I did leave the jumper in place, accidentally, this time, so the coil has been seeing a constant 12 v.

I checked using a test light and I am getting current to the coil terminal using the jumper, but it seems like no spark coming out.

Any ideas on the problem?
 
You mean you walked away and left the jumper on? How long?
If the points were closed, you probably killed the coil OR the points. If the points have a nyllon or plastic rubbing block, the current will heat the points up so much the block will melt, and the points will stay closed.

First, pop the dist. cap, slip a piece of clean cardboard between the points, re-conect your jumper, see if you have 12V at the points end of the primary (other small wire on coil). If you do, the primary may be okay.
Now, remove jumper, remove cardbaord, watch the points, and cranlk it. Do the points open and close?
If so, re-connect the jumper, check for pulsating 12V on the dist. side of the coile (other small wire opposite the jumper).
Now, a question:
Did you connect the jumper to the open side of the coil? If you connected it to the points (dist) side, you fried the points.
If you connected it right, have fixed 12V on one side of the coil promary and pulsating on the dist. (points) side, then pull the coil wire out of the top of the dist. cap, and hold it against the head and crank again with jumper connected. No spark, coil bad. Spark, rotor bad.
That's the simple answer.
Tell me what you get for results.
Dave
 
Thanks Dave,

I'll follow your advice when I get back in the shop.

To clarify:
I connected the jumper to the correct side of the coil (not the distributor side). I left it on for 2-3 days.

Some things I've already checked:
I used the simple test light and I get 12V at the ignition side of the coil with the jumper, and I get 12V continuous at the distributor side of the coil. I cranked the engine and did NOT see pulsating on the test light on the distributor side. I popped off the distributor cap and it looks like the points are opening and closing (but it was getting dark and my flashlight was weak so I can't say they are gapping properly and touching when closed, but they are moving). I also used some emery paper on the distributor cap contacts and rotor which were a bit pitted. I couldn't get the paper adequately between the points and didn't have a point file.

When I get back to the shop I'll check for spark from the coil wire by holding it against the head while cranking.

What do you think about no pulsation of the test light while attached to the dist side of the coil and cranking the engine?

( It is a typical simple test light with an alligator clip attached to ground on one end and an awl-like point on the other, which I touch to the appropriate spot to check for 12V).
 
No pulsation, points are shot. Period. If you left the coil connected for 2-3 days, and the points were closed, the little plastic connector where the spring and wire connects probably melted, if the rubbing block is good, and insulated the connection.
If your test light shows power on both sides of the coil, see what you have on the moving arm of the points. With points open, should be same as at the coil. If not, current path is broken, look at the plastic insulator where the wire connects to the points.
Best are a new set of points with insulator will fix it.

Oh, and put a note on the windscreen..."Remove Jumper", just to be safe.
 
Thanks for the help guys. Here's some follow up that may help others.

I found that I had fried the insulator/extension wire. I ordered a new one but unfortunately the repro appears to be for a later model distributor (it is the same as that on the distributor from my 1275, not yet installed). It did not fit the stock distributor in the bugeye/948. The bugeye dizzy has a "fork" on the body of the distributor that holds the insulator at the rivet where the wires connect. On the 1275 dizzy the plastic insulator has tracks on the sides that slide into the notch on the body of the distributor.

So I tried to fix the original insulator, which had melted the wire. For some reason I simply cannot solder. I have no idea why it is so difficult for me. I have some serious issue here. If anyone has tips on how to solder please let me know. It seems so simple.

Anyway, I managed to kludge a fix using spade connectors and electrical tape. Fortunately my handiwork is not visible when the distributor cap is put on...

Then, somehow I fried the coil when I tried to reconnect everything. I ordered a new one from Victoria British. Installed it and double checked everything. Now I finally get pulsation with the check light on the distributor side of the coil while cranking!

It started up and ran fine.

Only problem now is that my coil HT lead (push in type) does not seem to fit the hole in the new coil. It is loose and barely holds on by the rubber insulator's grip on the coil. Not sure what the issue is, seems like all push in coils should have fairly standard diameter "receiving" holes for the wire.

So the little problem, which leads to another little problem, leads to ...
But this is fun. Right?
 
TulsaFred said:
I found that I had fried the insulator/extension wire.

So I tried to fix the original insulator, which had melted the wire. For some reason I simply cannot solder. If anyone has tips on how to solder please let me know.


Only problem now is that my coil HT lead (push in type) does not seem to fit the hole in the new coil. It is loose and barely holds on by the rubber insulator's grip on the coil.
Click to expand...

I know little about the DM2. Therefore, what I’m about to suggest isn’t a “given” that it will work. This is something you will have to look at to determine if I am out of line.

If the DM2 feed-through is similar to that of the 25D4, the spade lug is riveted in place and it will be difficult to solder without a lot of surface prep. If the rivet is steel, this includes using acid flux, not resin. Rather than try to solder the parts, why not re-assemble them with a new rivet?

Do whatever you have to do to remove the rivet without destroying what is left of the nylon. Measure the rivet and buy a pop-rivet 1/8” longer. Buy some of the backup rivet washers as well.

Are the old flex wire and wire insulator sleeve OK? I hope they are both OK. If not, go to a motor rebuild company and tell them you need a couple of scrap carbon brushes with the flexible copper wires on them and tell them an approximate length about an inch longer than the old wire in the DM2. Motor brush wires are highly flexible and suitable replacements for wires going to the breaker plate in the dizzy.

Assuming your old wire is OK, remove it from the old rivet, then use your new pop-rivet to secure it to the assembled nylon block and spade lug. Don’t forget to use the backup washer. NOTE: I would NOT pump the rivet tool until the draw-mandrel “pops”. Stop squeezing the rivet tool when the nylon looks compressed and all the electrical bits seem to be in good contact. Then take the assembly to your vise and use a small punch to drive the rivet mandrel back “out” leaving a hole through the center of the rivet. You don’t want to damage what’s left of the nylon.

I’d spread a little dielectric grease on the wire to rivet and rivet to spade lug connections prior to riveting to prevent corrosion.

On the coil wire, look at the terminal on the end of the wire. Does it have little brass “fingers”? If so, clean them with fine sandpaper, steel wool, etc., then use a small screwdriver to lift the fingers. You want to effectively increase the contact diameter. Then put some dielectric grease there and push the wire back into the coil. It should be tighter now.
 
Fred,
According to Advanced Distributor's catalog page for the 25D distributors terminal block here "the older DM2 distributor with a "fork" on the breaker plate can be modified to use this terminal block as well!"

If you still have the replacement you bought around perhaps it can be modified. I have no idea what this entails but if you call Jeff at Advanced Distributors he might explain to you how to do it.

By the way, if you filed your points, you have likely destroyed whatever was left of the hard metal plating that keeps them from pitting. Order a new set or you will be filing on them again in the near future as they will continue to pit. If your points are pitting filing them is a temporary fix and, you are better off to spring for new ones.

Charlie
 
Thanks guys
great advice!
Good thought about drilling out the rivet and re-riveting with new components.
However, if the advance distributor piece will work then that looks like the simplest solution, depending on what the modification is.
I'll get in touch with Jeff.

Fred
 
The price for that block at Advanced Distributors is great. I certainly would buy one or two.

Note however that what Jeff says on the web page is:
"Older DM2 distributor with a "fork" on the breaker plate can be modified to use this terminal block as well!"
That implies to me that you modify the DM2, not this nylon block. It's worth a call to find out what needs to be done.

Let us know what you do both short- and long-term.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]That implies to me that you modify the DM2, not this nylon block.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is what I meant. Sorry if that was not clear.

Doug, the price of the terminal blocks is great, but the new breaker plate assembly, which comes with points, condenser, ground wire, and terminal block, plus installation screws for $25 look here is the deal of the century. If you compare it to buying the points, groundstrap, and terminal block separately, he's throwing in the breaker plate, screws, and condenser for free.

It would not be a bad idea to have one of these in the toolbox. Might get you home if your Pertronix crapped out while you were out and about, eh?

Charlie
 
Charlie, you are right. That assembly is a GREAT deal and would be a perfect spare to carry on trips.

However, DM2 owners should consider this purchase carefully. The product description says...
"Most DM2 distributors, all 25D distributors"
That implies "late" DM2s, not early, and that early DM2s would probably still need to be modified to accept this plate and/or its feed through bushing. Again, it would be worth a call to Jeff to find out what is required.
 
Sent Jeff an email inquiring about the necessary modification to use his terminal block on the DM2 distributor. Will let you know when he responds.

Also, it turns out that my coil wire issue wasn't that the hole was to large in diameter. In fact the new coil simply has a much deeper/more recessed connection (into the "nose cone" of the coil).

In defense of my apparent stupidity, I couldn't tell because I had already installed the coil in it's nearly upside down location with me crouching uncomfortably under the bonnet in an awkward "bugeye tinkering" position.

Maybe I need to look into that forward tilt hinge...

Fred
 
Back
Top