Newer model Jaguar sedans

[Sherlock]

Here's the scenario: A guy I know here in my city owns a Vanden Plas Series 3 V-12 sedan, bought it about two years ago as an interesting British car and a bit of fixer upper (previous owner of an MGA as I recall), anyway I talked to him recently and now he's selling it because it will cost him too much and he sounded almost disillusioned on the phone about it, almost like he had lost interest in things British. I have heard similar stories from two other people - one guy sold an XJ40 style sedan for the same reason (also had a crusty TR6 in his shop and was/perhaps still is a British car nut) and one of our company owners had an XJR sedan and sold it to buy an Audi instead (same story, costing too much).

Question: Didn't these guys realize that maintaining a Jaguar of any model would be more expensive when they purchased? I ask this because a friend of mine has a beautiful Series 3 Sovereign sedan and loves it, he bought it knowing full well it would cost more to maintain but still loves it and it has been reliable too.

What do you guys think?

 

[aeronca65t]

I think there are "serious" (enthusiast) owners and there are "casual" owners who buy a semi-exotic car "on a whim"...and then soon tire of it.

Happens with lots of cars, including Miatas, BMWs, S2000s, etc. This is a *good* thing....gets more interesting used cars in the "pipeline" for the rest of us!

 

[XJRpilot]

sir,
i own a 87 series three sovereign sedan, that has been more dependable than any other car i've ever owned. it was originally from canada. it does not have the u.s. emissions air pump, which may contribute to its reliability. the u.s. emissions system and air pump increase the heat leaving the engine through the manifold which in turn loosens the valve tappets on the left side of the engine.
that is why they sell a valve tappet hold down kit so well here in the states.
in the 6 years of ownership i have replaced the alternator and most of the suspension which is understandable since the car was fifteen years old. other than that along with bodywork and paint, the car never has given me a problem. parts are affordable, and obtainable. i would certainly recommend the series three xj(canadian) to anyone.

[ 01-14-2003: Message edited by: XJRpilot ]</p>

 

[John S Farrington]

In regard to your friend with the V12 series 3, What did he expect? The V12 Jag sedan is the most exotic and over powered sedan in the market place. If you want a PRACTICLE car, get a 6 cylinder. The V12 is a very exotic power plant with very low production numbers and is very expensive to maintain. The 6 cylinder models including the XJ6 series 3 and 4 and the XJRs are great luxury cars with excellent reliability. The exception to these are the 88/89 years. They had new model and electrical problems.
The service available in the USA might have had something to do with the comments about the 6 cylinder sedans. Dealers dont want to maintain a Jag after it is out of warranty and there are a lot of self proclaimed Jaguar independent outlets that should not be in that business. Improper repair and rip off artists are a common phenomon. Caveat emptor and best regards,

 

[Sherlock]

Aeronca65T: Interesting point you make, one thing I'm noticing is that many guys who run older LBC sports cars also have Series 3 Jaguar sedans because apparently they are quite reliable as compared to the Series 2 models.

XJRPilot: Interesting point about the Canadian Series 3 models, and I have no reason to disagree with you, my friends Canadian-market Sovereign has been very good to him

John S. Farrington: That V12 Series 3 sedan... one good reason for being Canadian (something you guys in the States never got), my friend with the Sovereign here in town was considering the Vanden Plas V12 model but was driving a fair distance on the highway every day at the time so bought a Sovereign instead, now since then he has a job closer to home and wishes he had purchased a V12 model

Well what else do you guys think on the topic...

 

[XJRpilot]

on the v12 subject: i've owned a xjs(87) that has the same engine that is in the series three v12
xj's (the u.s. never saw these, only canada and europe had the honor). while it did have gobs of torque, and ran silky smooth( there really isnt anything else like it on the road) is was a nightmare when it came to repairs and maintenance. parts are very expensive, and finding somebody that is QUALIFIED
to do the work is a mission in itself, not to mention you will PAY for that knowledge. i remember ordering a distributer cap and rotor
which cost me $87.00 US dollars. and that was the aftermarket brand. oe was close to 110.00.
my head gasket went bad on the b bank cylinder head. a british car mechanic that lives about 30 miles away from me explained(he is extremely trustworthy and honest, as well as qualified),
if i was going to replace one head gasket i should do both, and that the engine had 117,000 miles, and should have both heads rebuilt with new valves and valve seats, since they tend to drop a valve seat when the heads are subjected to high mileage and heat. the only other thing he said i should replace is the water pump at 80-100k miles as a precautionary measure. excellent insurance he stated. total cost for the job including parts: over $2500.00
he also mentioned that the jaguar v12 is one of the few engines that fit into the same cost, maintenance, and repair tier as bentley, rolls royce, aston martin, and tvr.
i have no reason to doubt him since my research
proved him right. if you can afford the maintanance, part costs, and repairs, go for it.
the v12 engine is amazing when it runs good.
as for me i'll stick with the 6 cyl xk series three engine, which has proved itself to be very reliable, and use the money i have saved by not having the v12, for my mgb.

 

[Sherlock]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> XJRPilot said: the v12 engine is amazing when it runs good.
<hr></blockquote>

I've heard that too. One of our club members about five hours north of Toronto has a Vanden Plas V12 sedan, and one time they drove it to the big British car show in the Toronto area.

He wrote an article for our newsletter, and had nothing bad to say about the drive. Much of the drive if they chose the right route would be on side roads with hardly any traffic to contend with.

 

[Darryl]

Hi Sherlock,

What do I think? The most comfortable high performance sedans around!I ran an 86 Series 3 XJ6 for three years, and replced it with an 87 XJ40 two years ago, never had a spot of trouble.
The trick is to stay out of trouble by having regular maintenance by Jag experts (not neccessarily dealers, they are too expensive)
Darryl

 

[XJRpilot]

i agree that maintanance is the key to a good running cat. here is a copy of a post from this forum "reliability question":

go for it!!! after 1991-92 quality went up and they were very dependable. the mid 90's and on jaguars are indeed mechanically excellent. when john egan took over the series three xj production in 82, quality and dependability went up like a rocket. then it fell drastically with the introduction of the aj6 engine from 88-90.(new engine bugs, minor design flaws). but jaguar
saw the error of their ways and improved, as a quality auto manufacturer should. after 1991-92, quality is the key word. i also should mention that maintanance is the key to a good running jag.
change the oil regularly ( i do mine every 2000 miles religiously), and do the required tune ups
including valve adjustments and timing. flush the cooling system every 8-10k, and the cat will purr
for many years.

 

[John S Farrington]

I think this forum has hit the major points righton the head. The Jaguar V12 is an awsome engine with silky smooth power. It was built to routinely drive 140 MPH on the European conditions. That comes with a price, it takes about double to triple labor as compared with similar jobs to a 6. (the Jaguar published allowance to change the spark plugs is 3 hours!!) The reason is not only the number of cylinders, but also the unbelievably crowded engine compartment. It takes double to to triple the amount of time because of access.
A series 4 XJ12 is a very good example of spare parts difference. A XJ6 has a repairable radiator that also may be replaced for about $300. The XJ12 has a plastic tank radiator that is unique to the 12 and the plastic is non- repairable. The plastic side tanks, that crack, cannot be replaced as a part. The radiator, because of low numbers of these cars, costs about $750 from Jaguar which is the ONLY source. Jaguar dropped the plastic radiator after the XJ12 application.
I love my XJS but it must be regarded as a very special, exotic car. The only parcticle aspect of it are the parts that interchange with the XJ6.
The point about requiring special knowledge mechanics; to this I say amen. The 12 cylinder Jaguars are great and unique cars that do not do bad on gas mileage, but dont buy them to save money.

 

[John S Farrington]

I would like to add a footnote. If you encounter a 12 cylinder that has been ill maintained to the point of qualifing as a "fixerupper", do not buy it even though you love its style and you think it is a great deal. One is much better off to start with a V12 in above average to pristine condition and keep it that way. I have rebuilt V12s and the price of entry is about $10K. By the way, I also dont recommend Chevy conversions. (Why not get a Corvette?)

 

[XJRpilot]

john wrote:

If you encounter a 12 cylinder that has been ill maintained to the point of qualifing as a "fixerupper", do not buy it even though you love its style and you think it is a great deal. One is much better off to start with a V12 in above average to pristine condition and keep it that way. I have rebuilt V12s and the price of entry is about $10K. By the way, I also dont recommend Chevy conversions. (Why not get a Corvette?)

i agree 100% !!!!! well said.

 

[v12_jagman]

I have an 89 series 3 V12 have had it since Sept 2000. we I brought I knew that is was never going to be cheap to run or maintain but who cares its just a great car that if you truly admire them you just accept it. The bigest problem is finding people other than the specialest who charge the earth to do any repairs on them most mechanics just run the other way

 

[MarkB]

Hi, My name is Mark. By way of introduction, I'm a new guy on the forum. I've had occasion to spend time with a beautiful XJS convertible. It was great to drive. If any of you guys wants to lend me your V12s I'd be happy, but if I bought a Jag, it would have to be an old six. The original beauty of Sir William's cars were that they were an unprecedented (and will forever remain unmatched) mixture of exotic and practical. I love going to vintage races and seeing someone out there thrashing around in an old XK 120. Most of that car's, performance-equivalent, contemporaries are now competing for concours points based on whether their engine-bolts are painted the correct color. That's not a sport.
Hope that last bit didn't offend anyone. I'd just rather drive my car hard, the way they used to.
Anyway, good to meet everyone. Mark