Need photo of leads from distributor to plugs

[Member 10617]

Does anyone have a photo of a TR3A engine showing the distributor and the leads, in proper order, from it to the plugs? I have looked in every manual I own and can find no photo showing this.

The reason is that I sent a photo of mine to a friend, and he wrote back: "Your plug wires are 1 position off from "standard." Someone at some time has gotten the distributor gear off, and your plug wires have moved clockwise one position to compensate for it."

I'd like to see what it should look like and determine if I need to fix this. Also, I am wondering if the situation has anything to do with carbon fouling I am experiencing on plug #1.

The mystery continues....

 

[Andrew Mace]

In absence of a scanner, I'll describe what is drawn in the Factory Workshop Manual. It shows the distributor, with LUCAS upside down as you look at it from the LH side of the engine and the wires all pointing towards you. The vacuum advance connection points about 9:30 and the LT connector about 1:00 p.m. Upper left wire is #1, lower left wire is #3, lower right wire is #4 and upper right wire is #2.

Does that help?

So long as #1 cylinder fires just before TDC and the others follow in their order (1-3-4-2), I don't think distributor orientation matters, nor would it have anything to do with the fouling on #1.

NOTE: I know that the cap changed at some point and, with it the direction that the wires faced. Again, see paragraph above.

 

[mrv8q]

Ed, hope it helps!

 

[Andrew Mace]

Kevin's photo shows nicely what I described in my previous reply!

 

[TR3driver]

I have looked in every manual I own

If you don't have a copy of Practical Hints, you should get one.

 

[mrv8q]

Hmmm, I like Randall's diagram; somewhere I have an original wire tie that I'll have to dig up, similiar to his Fig 25.

 

[tdskip]

I thought you were supposed to keep the wires separated?

 

[Geo Hahn]

Another view...

I have never had a problem with the wires bundle together and that is how STC did it. Seems like I read that wire that cross perpendicular to each other are more troublesome than those that pass alongside one another, but maybe that's a myth.

I like the wires as short as practical, for one thing it is impossible to install them wrong (not that I would ever make that mistake)... 1 only reaches 1, 2 can only reach 2, 4 is theonly one that can reach 4, 3 is what's left.

Could never seem to manage that neat layout in the Practical Hints, esp the way #3 is routed.

<span style="font-style: italic">Hmmm, looking at the above pics, perhaps mine needs to move one tooth CW?</span>

 

[Roger]

Another view...

Seems like I read that wire that cross perpendicular to each other are more troublesome than those that pass alongside one another, but maybe that's a myth.

Other way round I believe, something to do with parallel wires inducing current in other wires and stray sparks ensuing.

 

[TR3driver]

It's practically never a problem on 4-cylinder engines, because when each cylinder fires, none of the other cylinders are ready. But on a V-8 (or higher), the next cylinder in the firing sequence already has compressed fuel/air in the cylinder so a stray spark can set it off and make it fight the other cylinders.

 

[Member 10617]

Thank you for all the great feedback. I do have a PRACTICAL HINTS, but most of the illustrations are so poor that they are hard to follow. The photographs suppled are a great help.

I discovered today why my wires are one position off from standard. I learned that the plug wire location is dictated by the position of the gear under the distributor pedestal. This gear can be placed in any position, according to my source, and as long as the wires are moved around to match the "new" position of the distributor rotor, the car will run just fine. The mechanic at the shop where I had my engine rebuilt told me that they did this on purpose because it allowed them to better position the distributor and some other components.

At any rate, there doesn't appear to be a problem.

I took the car for a road trip today from Lexington, VA, to Charlottesville, VA, and back by way of the Blue Ridge Parkway, and it ran beautifully.

 

[poolboy]

That's what it's ALL about, Ed.

 

[TR3driver]

Thank you for all the great feedback. I do have a PRACTICAL HINTS, but most of the illustrations are so poor that they are hard to follow.

You might want to download the copy at
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...yNzUw&hl=en
then. I have tried to tweak all the photos and illustrations until they are legible, if not exactly pretty. Please let me know if you find any problems.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]The mechanic at the shop where I had my engine rebuilt told me that they did this on purpose because it allowed them to better position the distributor and some other components.[/QUOTE]My opinion, someone is dissembling to cover up a mistake. The gear has plenty of teeth, they could put the distributor in almost any position without having to move the wires around in the cap.

When I bought my first TR3A, it had been terribly neglected (basically driven until it would no longer run) and parked in a field. A tow truck would have cost more than I paid for the car, so I set about trying to make it run to get it home. (Yeah, I was young and foolish back then. I'm older now

) One of the first things I did was to install the plugs, cap & wires from Dad's running TR3 into mine ...

I spent three solid days, standing ankle-deep in snow, trying to coax that engine into life! It would cough, and snort, and sneeze like it was trying to run, but just never quite light off. At one point, I even got a bath in boiling coolant! We had decided that perhaps it was just the cold weather keeping the TR from running, and tried coupling its heater hoses to those of my Olds. Probably blocking off the radiator on the Olds was a bad idea, as it got hot and the pressure blew apart one of the jury-rigged hoses, blowing coolant basically all over me (including up the sleeve of my jacket.

We even managed to run down the Olds' battery, which could have been a major catastrophe as we were miles from the nearest pay phone (and cell phones didn't exist yet). Fortunately, after saying some suitable prayers and shaking the battery thoroughly, it managed to turn the engine just enough and it started again.

Finally, after flat-towing the TR for over an hour to my buddy's house (with me piloting the TR of course, no heat and freezing cold air blowing up my pants leg from the perforated floor boards), it dawned on me what I had done. Dad's car had the wires swapped! I knocked the spider webs out of the original cap and ratty looking wires, installed them, and it fired right up!

So, call me prejudiced, but if it were my car, I'd get the wires sorted out.

 

[Andrew Mace]

When I bought my first TR3A, it had been terribly neglected (basically driven until it would no longer run) and parked in a field. A tow truck would have cost more than I paid for the car, so I set about trying to make it run to get it home. (Yeah, I was young and foolish back then. I'm older now

)

Egad, you were as bad as I was. When I wrecked my own first Herald, I found another one and bought it for parts...and we chain-towed it home 20 miles...behind Dad's Herald!

I was a bit better when I bought my first TR3A. It was 12 years old and tired, and it had been in a barn for a couple of years with a bad front wheel bearing. I bought the car, worked in the barn cleaning up the stub axle and putting in "new" bearings (from the Herald parts car -- same bearings), and then chain-towed it home behind mom's Country Squire. The first three miles were the worst, since the seller lived well up a local "mountain" road!

 

[Member 10617]

Hi, Randall,

The explanation I was given about the repositioned wires and repositioned distributor seemed to make "some" sense. The mechanic said that they like to reposition the distributor and its vacuum unit so it doesn't stick out in the normal position, but is moved to a less intrusive position, thus allowing the vacuum line to be positioned safely out of the way. There was also something about some units under the distributor having to be moved if I returned to "standard."

He said that I could return it to "standard," but that it wasn't necessary.

You may be right -- I know very little about these mechanical things -- but because of how much work I've had done on the car in the past year, and because the car is now running beautifully, I think I'll leave well-enough alone for now. The alternative: having it in the shop for weeks at a time, in a town about 50 miles from my home, just takes away from time that I could be driving at this time of the year. As Poolboy says: That's what it's ALL about.

As one friend has said to me: It won't hurt to leave the wires in that "non-standard" position, but I won't be able to swap distributor caps with someone else in case of a problem. For that reason, I'm getting a back-up distributor cap with leads attached in the non-standard position as a "back-up" for now.

I really enjoy hearing these stories of how you guys found derelict TR3s in barns and fields and brought them back to life. I wish I had had the skills, knowledge, and opportunity to accomplish the same. Too late for me (old geezer) but I hope you guys inspire younger kids to do the same and save the declining number of roadsters out there rusting away. When they're gone, they're gone.

Below is a photo of my scurrent set-up.

BTW: I have an original copy of PRACTICAL HINTS (in mint condition) and it is hard to make out details in the photos.

 

[Twosheds]

You may be right -- I know very little about these mechanical things -- but because of how much work I've had done on the car in the past year, and because the car is now running beautifully, <span style="font-weight: bold">I think I'll leave well-enough alone for now. </span> The alternative: having it in the shop for weeks at a time, in a town about 50 miles from my home, just <span style="font-weight: bold">takes away from time that I could be driving at this time of the year.</span> As Poolboy says: That's what it's ALL about.

<span style="font-style: italic">Now</span> you're learning! You are so lucky. You can go for a ride on the Blue Ridge Parkway any time you want.

 

[sail]

You can go for a ride on the Blue Ridge Parkway any time you want.

Nice!

 

[Member 10617]

Dr. John and Richard,

Yes, it's one of life's compensations. I'm about 15 minutes from the Blue Ridge Parkway, and about an hour south of the Skyline Drive. It's really all I need to enjoy my car.

When I was up there yesterday, I passed some bike riders and only three cars in 47 miles! A different story in the Spingtime, however.