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Need help with brakes!

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longbridgehealey

longbridgehealey

Obi Wan
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I've <span style="font-weight: bold">never</span> <span style="font-weight: bold">worked on brakes before</span>. Here's what I've got. My '59 Bugeye has been sitting since I bought it last year. Now I have the time to work on her, and the brakes are first (since there aren't any!). When she was delivered, the brake pedal was very soft, but it would stop the car. After sitting for nine months, the pedal goes all of the way to the floor.
What I've done:
The resevoir was dry, so I filled it up.
Checked lines for leaks, haven't spotted any.
Working on trying to get the drums off, set screws are stripped.

What I think I should do next -
Get drums off
Bleed brakes

Am I right?
Should I buy a speed bleeder?

Thanks
Larry
 
Do you have any history on work done to the brake system prior to you getting it? What environmental conditions has the car been in the past year? Start by getting those drums off to check shoes, brake cylinders, and hardware. No sense trying to bleed a system and find out your components aren't up to par.
 
No history prior to my purchase, other than it came from Florida. For the last year it has been inside our garage. Overall the car in in fairly good shape. Very little rust, all gauges and electric works fine, fluids were clean when we got her. It appears last owner had started dismantling the interior to rebuild. All the interior panels trim were in the boot.
I guess the first big challenge is the stripped set screws - I can't even tell what kind of head they had on them.
 
It reads as though you have one or more leaks in the system, so the first thing is to find out where, and fix that first. There's no point bleeding until you've done that, as the problems will only return in short order.

How long is it since the car was used regularly? If several years, you might want to consider a total brake overhaul. If the problem is recent, try the following:

1. Try to identify where it's leaking. This could be at the master cylinder, or any of the wheel cylinders.

2. Remove the offending parts and repair or replace. You'll need to get the drums off before you can remove a wheel cylinder. Repair kits are available for master and wheel cylinders, and work fine as long as the cylinders are generally in good shape, particularly the bores where pressure is sealed.
Don't clean cylinders with any kind of mineral spirit, it'll attack the seals in the system. I use alcohol, of the non-potable kind in case I get tempted.

3. Check your linings. If wheel cylinders have leaked they may be U/S, being soaked in brake fluid. In that case, get replacements.
(I must confess that in my impoverished youth I have soaked contaminated linings in petrol overnight, and had a merry conflagration the next day, to burn away the lubricant from the linings, but it never worked very well.)

4. When you've eliminated leaks, put everything back together and bleed. Don't try bleeding with the drums off unless you're a masochist. Drums should be on and brakes adjusted correctly.Personally, I adjust them too tight before bleeding and back them off afterwards, as it seems to make it all a bit easier.
 
One other thing - by "set screws" I guess you mean those holding the drums on, and they're no so much stripped (which usually refers to the thread) as the heads are mangled so you can't get 'em out.
Use a dremel or similar to get them as flat as you can, and drill the heads out. I never put them back - they don't do much at any time except be a bl@@dy nuisance to remove and the wheel studs & nuts hold the drum in place anyway.
Some cars never had them at all!
 
Yep, not stripped, just mangled. Figured I'd have to dril them out, what I couldn't figure out was what purpose they served!

Thanks to both of you - sounds like the first thing is to get the drums off, and find the leak(s). Am I right in thinking that if the clutch is holding pressure, the master cylinder is probably ok?

Larry
 
No real purpose except to hold the brake drums on when the wheels are off.
 
Are you using a posi-drive screwdriver to remove those screws... or a Phillips head? In my experience, those head can get pretty mangled by Phillips head screw drivers... but a squirt of PBblaster and the proper screw driver can work miracles.

If it were me, I would plan on rebuilding or replacing all my hydraulic components. Rebuilding them is a lot easier than you might think!
 
Hit them with PBblaaster last night, going after them tonight with either posi-drive or phillips, whichever will get any sort of grip, then the drill...

I've never done brakes before, but from what folks are telling me, and what I'm seeing, it does make sense to replace the hydraulic parts, and the shoes if needed. My biggest concern right now (other than getting the drums off) is recognizing where the leak is. This is all new to me.
 
Plan on a rebuild/replacement of the brake components. With unknown history of the car you don't know the condition of the rubber components, or whether moisture has entered the system causing corrosion, pitting, etc. You can do it. You've got a lot of us who have rebuilt brake systems that can offer advice to get you through it. You're biggest challenge at the moment is going to be getting the components off the car.
 
I think that you're right, replace and/or rebuild seems to be the way to go. Between my manuals and you folks, I can't go too far astray (I hope). First task is getting the drums off, then I'll check in again on this thread for the next stage. Thanks!
 
don't forget DOT3 absorbs water - if a rebuild is in the cards, you will have to change it anyway, however, assuming the reservoir dry - therefore the possibility of air in the system and the fluid being old - it might just require a clean and change of fluid
 
And don't forget to check out the flex hoses very carefully, if they're more than 10 years old they will swell up on the inside as the rubber deteriorates. And the fact that the clutch M/cyl still works means absolutely nothing about the condition of the brake side of the m/cyl. I'd rebuild or replace everything between the pedal and the drum (and check the drums of out of round/near/at wear limit, too - they're cheap. Remember, you only have one brake circuit, so if anything fails, the whole system goes down and you're yanking at the little toy handbrake...
 
Yep, absolutely air in the system and old fluid. But that's not the worst of the issues. Got the two front drums off last night, one with posi and one with a drill. Springs are rusted, pads are almost non-exixtent and covered with oil, fluid and grease, inside of drums slick with fluid and one hose torn, the other one with bare spots and abrasion. All wheel cylinders - no, just three of them - leaking. Going for total replacement.

OK, here comes another question - What do I need besides wheel cylinders, hoses, brake shoes, springs and either master cylinder or rebuild kit? Do I need any seals, gaskets, etc?

Thanks again to everybody - Never done this, but it seems like everything I do on these cars is a first time learning experience.

:thankyousign:
Larry
 
add drums to list
 
I don't know if you are going for originality or not, but at this point I might consider bringing the car up-to-date and switching the front end to disc brakes!! :wink:
 
Mike - I've never done brakes before, that might be biting off more than I'm ready for! :yesnod:
 
Bah, easy stuff, just come here for answers to specific questions.

Might want to replace rear axle seals, O ring and gasket while you have the rear wheels apart.
 
Thanks Jack - will do on rear seals, etc.
 
longbridgehealey said:
Mike - I've never done brakes before, that might be biting off more than I'm ready for! :yesnod:
Click to expand...

Jack is right on this - it's an easy rebuild, just be clean, methodical and don't dismantle both sides at once as you won't have one to compare it too - don't ask me how I know
 
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