TR2/3/3A Mind the gap? TR3 sidecurtains

[NutmegCT]

My first experience with putting these on the car. Seems there's a tad too much airspace (an inch?) between the front of the curtain and the windscreen frame. Note the LTD fasteners are lined up with the studs on the body, and the interior bars are locked in place, but am I missing something? Is it simply that the rubber "surround" is an inch too narrow? (The passenger side actually fits relatively well.)

I realize the curtains were never meant to provide hermetically sealed water-tight protection from the elements, but ...

Edit: the "grey" color results from the flash - not the curtain itself.

 

[Moseso]

Yes, that's a reasonably inelegant fit. And it nicely fulfills the description of TR3s as cars that "don't so much leak, as actually invite the water in."

I've heard that the fitting process involves (carefully) bending the arms that attach to the inside of the door, so that when inserted and locked, the side curtain pulls snug to the windscreen.

Also: Your windshield bottom seal looks fairly shot. Maybe you shouldn't drive much in the rain...

 

[AweMan]

Tom:
Thats just not right!
The curtains should fit a lot better than that.
At least the ones on my 56 do. {there the wedge type tho and do allow for some adjustment}
A couple of questions:
Do both curtains match up relativedly closely when you lay them back to back on top of one another? {Looking at your pic the frame on the drivers one doesn`t apear to be right.}
Are they O.E.M. curtains or aftermarket?

 

[Harry_Ward]

Getting a bit cold are we?

Sorry I cannot help. I have some unknown to me type of aftermarket side curtains manufactured in Long Island NY with adjustable arms that slide front to back on the side curtain frame below the window and have bolted pivot points for adjustment on the arms to adjust to the windshield frame. I have to be careful though not to position it too far forward or the front arm rubs and rips into the dash rail capping fabric. I mention that only to warn you not to push the arm to far forward or the arm may hit the dash.

BTW - I struggled and fought but won the roof on battle last weekend. I'm wondering if I'm gonna be able to even get that thing on in another ten years???

 

[Geo Hahn]

Those appear to be some after-market product that differ from originals in material, construction and fit. I do not think originals ever had rubber seals.

The originals had a stitched edging that slips nicely into the groove formed by the stancion & the tenon plate. Once fully home in that groove they would not bow out at speed.

Yes, the originals could be adjusted by gentle bending to achieve this fit... I doubt the heavier aluminum frames on the ones pictured would bend well.

The later curtains had another adjustment -- the location of the mounts themselves on the door. These are sometimes mislocated during a reupholstery... however that adjustment is likely not possible on an earlier car with the side curtains attached to the door's LTD pegs.

Back in the 60s and 70s JCWhitney sold sidecurtains for TRs using bare aluminum frames. They did the job at a time when not much else was available. These may have come from them or a similar source.

Okay, I just checked your profile and see that your TR3A is a 1959. I do not think the ones pictured would be for a '59 apart form their other differences. I don't have the change point handy but I'm pretty sure that by 59 the curtains no longer attached to the door pegs but just came down the outside of the door with a rigid panel that stopped just above the pegs.

 

[Banjo]

That is not a proper fit. It should be in tight to the windscreen, and get wedged a tad when shutting the door to provide a reasonable seal (they still leak no matter what)
It's all in bending the arms to pull them in. There's a ton of adjustment available, it just takes a lot of tweaking and test fitting. If you were a bit closer I'd come over and give you a hand. We'd probably have them fitting nicely inside a half hour.
The goal is to bend the lower arms without distorting the window frame. use large pliars, your bench vise, wood blocks, and whatnot to accomplish getting more leverage to bend them.
Go in small incrememts and test fit between each bend.
Also be sure to use somthing thick and soft to portect the curtian arms. (a piece of leather works nicely)
You can buy the brand new ones and they need the same thing done. You can buy originals and they need the same thing done.
Each car was different, and usually curtians could not be swapped without some adjustment.

 

[NutmegCT]

Interesting discovery: I popped the LTD fasteners and could then move the frame forward so the "fit" was much improved along windscreen, soft top, and door. However, the curtain LTDs were then about 1.5" too far forward to hit the mounted studs underneath.

Now I'm figuring that at sometime in the distant, foggy past, the curtains were replaced, and perhaps patched at various times since then. Can't imagine, however, why the LTD fasteners are mounted so as to actually prevent the curtain itself from lining up properly.

Other "deviations": both the front and back plastic windows slide, and there are unused holes (in addition to the holes with the bolts) drilled in the top of the support bars where they attach to the curtain frame inside the car.

As my budget won't allow the purchase of spiffy new sidecurtains, I'll have to make do with and "expansion" of the rubber seals.

Tom
Monday, Wednesday, Friday, it's boiled wieners. Other days it's warmed-over wiener water.

 

[TR3driver]

Okay, I just checked your profile and see that your TR3A is a 1959. I do not think the ones pictured would be for a '59 apart form their other differences. I don't have the change point handy but I'm pretty sure that by 59 the curtains no longer attached to the door pegs but just came down the outside of the door with a rigid panel that stopped just above the pegs.

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif I believe the change to not engage the LTD posts happened at the same time as the switch to Dzus rather than 'wedge' mount, at something like TS28826 in 58.

And those are clearly aftermarket frames, not originals.

 

[NutmegCT]

As my car comes well after the 28xxx windscreen [edit: sidecurtain] changeover, the support bars are locked by Dzus screws. As always, Randall and Piggott agree.

I also noticed I could actually slide the aluminum frame forward so that the front rubber "seal" is now much closer to the proper location. Of course, now those LTD fasteners won't all reach their studs.

Just out of curiosity ... as the curtain supports are now "locked" with the Dzus screws, would it be safe (?) to just let the exterior overhanging base hang loose - and not worry about the LTDs (as shown in Piggott, p. 51, lower picture)? In my "version", there is no interior securing strap (Piggott, p. 42, lower picture); I wonder if the Dzus locked supports are sufficient.

Thanks.
Tom

 

[Banjo]

Probably, the two main dzus fasteners will hold, no problem. But you'll find that the lower panal with the LTDs will "flap" going down the road, possibly marring your paint, and definatly being a nusance.
Most likley those curtians were "stolen" from a different car. When you buy curtians new, you have to install the fasteners yourself so it will definatly fit your car.

 

[Geo Hahn]

...As always, Randall and Piggott agree.

Not always. I've caught a couple of mistakes by Piggott.

If it were me (maybe IIWM should be an accepted abbreviation?) I would relocate the LTDs on the flap and have a secure and reasonably weather resistant curtain.

A crafty person could probably replace that flap with new vinyl but in any case I don't think too many people will be closely inspecting your TR in the cold & wet.

I agree that if left loose they will flap as you drive, at the very least annoying and at worst damaging.

 

[Harry_Ward]

I wonder if the Dzus locked supports are sufficient.

Thanks.
Tom

Tom,

That's all that holds my side screen on. 2 Dzus fasteners, the rubber flap folds, pushes into the windshield stanchion slot, and roof slot. I also agree the flap on your sidescreen would slam around on the door at speed. The passenger side you can fold into the appropriate slots from the outside (easy). The driver has to open the window and push fold the rubber flap into the windowshield slot and work the rubber flap into roof slot (kind of a challenge).

Here's what my windscreen looks like - Not original but functional. It does creak and groan above fifty but hasn't flown off at seventy yet.

 

[Geo Hahn]

And here is a look at what I think are original style side curtains as they would have been fitted to a '59:

As Harry notes, the leading edge slips into the groove and the top edge fits under the flap on the hood (top). On mine the back edge is the poorest fit but given the direction of the overlap that portion doesn't want to admit rain or wind.

 

[NickMorgan]

Tom,
Your side screens look very similar to mine. I believe they are Amco parts. The previous owner of my car replaced the bottom half with a piece of aluminium. They tend to be very rattly, though. The perspex rattles in the frame and the aluminium rattles, too!
I bought a pair of "original" style side screens from a well known supplier and although they cost a lot of money they do not fit the car. The two arms are not even parallel and I am afraid to adjust them in case they break off inside the vinyl. They are still sitting on a shelf in my garage.
The other problem I found with the Amco screens is that they tend to pop out from the windscreen at speed. I screwed a piece of metal to the top of teh side screens before I went on a rally to Ireland several years ago. As you will see those bits of metal are still there today! I also glued some carpet onto the inside of the aluminium to try and stop the rattle and draughts!

 

[NutmegCT]

This is excellent. Thanks to everyone for the details. I think my set is closest to Harry's - so there is some tweaking yet I can do. I'm relatively sure I've got the original plastic sliders in a much newer frame. Don't know where the vinyl (?) came from; the vinyl even has signs that a few of the LTD fasteners were slightly moved, and there's a fastener hole on the front edge, plus a button snap on the trailing edge, which have no place on the body itself to fasten to.

General question on the soft top: I've got all the Tenax fasteners snapped across the top of the windscreen. But when I'm driving, an amazing amount of (very cool) comes blasting right between the leading edge of the top, and the windscreen frame top.

Does this sound right? It seems fine for keeping light rain out of the cockpit, but all that cold air hitting the forehead is a bit uncomfortable. Guess it's to help keep the driver awake? Should there be some kind of seal or gasket closing up that "air passage"?

Thanks.
Tom
PS - Nick, I posted a split second after you posted your pictures. My frames and sliders look so much like yours they could be twins, but my bottom half has the "not quite ready for prime time" fasteners.

 

[Twosheds]

General question on the soft top: I've got all the Tenax fasteners snapped across the top of the windscreen. But when I'm driving, an amazing amount of (very cool) comes blasting right between the leading edge of the top, and the windscreen frame top.

Does this sound right? It seems fine for keeping light rain out of the cockpit, but all that cold air hitting the forehead is a bit uncomfortable. Guess it's to help keep the driver awake? Should there be some kind of seal or gasket closing up that "air passage"?

There is supposed to be a flap of top material sewn to the top that fits between the windscreen frame and tenax snaps on the top. The flap has holes in it that allow the tenax studs to pass through it. Hard to explain without a blackboard, but if you have it you will know what I mean.

Perhaps your top is missing this flap?

 

[NickMorgan]

I am sure that my soft top has a roll of soft material or covered rubber that is squashed onto the top rubber of the screen when the top is fitted. Certainly there is no draught from there. (Well, there are so many draughts from everywhere else it is difficult to tell!)

 

[NutmegCT]

Whoa there Nellie - look at the top of Nick's windscreen frame. Looks to me like there's some kind of rubber seal/gasket there.

Mine is bare metal.

Perhaps I need Moss #680-480 ?

Tom

 

[NutmegCT]

I am sure that my soft top has a roll of soft material or covered rubber that is squashed onto the top rubber of the screen when the top is fitted. Certainly there is no draught from there. (Well, there are so many draughts from everywhere else it is difficult to tell!)

Aha! The clue! "... onto the top rubber of the screen ..."!

That's what's missing on TeeYah (among other things ...).

Heaven knows how that missing rubber is attached - but I'll wade that Mississippi when I come to it.

Thank you!
Tom

 

[Twosheds]

Perhaps I need Moss #680-480 ?

Yes.