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Military recruiters!

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Bret

Bret

Yoda
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Here’s the dilemma.

Ok first off my son is really "serious" about going into the Marines but he doesn’t want to sign up just yet. Mainly because he’s hoping for better career choices. He’d already taken the ASVAB but didn’t get the scores he needed for some of the Aviation jobs he was hoping for. Granted he did get some neat career choices to choose from and even liked them. But he still wants to hold out on signing anything to try retake the ASVAB, to see if he can improve on his test scores to try again for the jobs he really wants. I support him on this idea and feel he should retake the test after he's had a chance to take some of the practice tests availble on line. Something he didn't do before the first testing. I really feel this will improve his scoring and might open the windows to some MOS's he might like better and improve his career chances when he gets out.

Problem is the recruiter is trying to say that if he retests there’s a chance he might not score as well & not qualify for the jobs he currently gets to chose from. Moreover according to the recruiter even if he does retest & get that higher score, the jobs he may want might not be available at that time or have a long waiting list when he's ready to enter the service. He also told us that there are only so many “Slots” for each recruiting area for a particular job that they can fill.

Personally even if the “Slots” really do exist I think the recruiter is pushing way too hard. The guy’s a relatively new recruiter and I think he’s hungry and is actually pushing to sign Matt up this month!

But I think I’ve nipped that one in the bum – because my son is attending summer school through the middle of next month and told the recruiter that if he misses one day and is tardy just once he fails the course. So there is no way he’s going to get him signed up this month. In fact I’m going to talk to the recruiter tomorrow when I give him a copy of my son’s birth certificate that he needs to back off for a while & let my son make up his mind in his own good time.

Anyway, I need to know if anyone knows of a web site with a breakdown of the career MOS codes my son was given based on his ASVAB scores?
 
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif "Personally even if the “Slots” really do exist I think the recruiter is pushing way too hard. The guy’s a relatively new recruiter and I think he’s hungry and is actually pushing to sign Matt up this month!"

Googled MOS codes and came up with quite a bit of info. You will get more information than you probably need but well worth a look/see.
 
I do know that the Air Force lists slots for jobs nation wide, but even when a 2nd Lieutenant picks one that he is qualified for and wants, the AF person in charge may still assign them to a harder to fill slot. At least that has happened to a number of my son's friends in the 14 months since they were commissioned.

A Philadelphia TV station did a series of reports on Army Recruiters out right lying to get kids to sign, so be leery of an over-eager recruiter.

Written as the father of a young 2nd Lieutenant training as a navigator at Randolph AFB in San Antonio.
 
I’ll agree with the recruiter about getting a lower score on a retest, that’s exactly what happened to me on my SATs. First test, with no studying, I went to a party, got drunk, very little sleep. Second time around I had taken an SAT class, studied, got the sleep, but my score was 40-60 points less. Just goes to show that our education system can really dumb you down..
I'm not saying it will happen, just that it can.
 
Okay, the recruiter is correct but is pushing real hard because he needs the points to make his monthly quota...here's how it works:

The higher the ASVAB line scores, the more 'jobs' a person qualifies for; the overall ASVAB score just qualifies a person for enlistment (i.e., 50 or 73)....the individual line scores are what's pertinent for specific job skills....& the last ASVAB scores on record are the ones that count...so, theoretically, if your son scores lower overall or on specific lines, he could miss out on some opportunities because his last score would be the lower of the 2....taking the practice tests helps; there's even a book you can buy at most chain bookstores to prepare for the ASVAB.

All branches of the military try to project their annual needs per MOS (military occupational skill) & then recruit against those slots - they even report to Congress how many of each job skill they need....I'll tell you this: they over recruit based on projected attrition at basic camp or boot camp but that over recruiting number is figured into their annual needs...&, yes, certain jobs do fill quickly - however, they usually don't fill until right around high school graduation time so he has plenty of time to make a decision.

Another thing about the Marines: they don't guarantee you a specific MOS (job skill identifier) until after boot camp - they just put you in a grouping & then you retake the tests again to qualify for a specific job.

Tell the recruiter this: the Army colonel who's advising you (& you may use my name) said your son is going to enlist somewhere - but that if he keeps pushing too hard, he's gonna push your son right into the Army, not the Marines! Tell him we want him to retake the ASVAB in 30 days to see if he can raise his scores (I hope he made at least a 50 overall the first time out!) & he'll either take it with the Marines or walk over to the Army recruiter to take it there! & tell him, that in 30 days if his score goes down ,he'll retake in again another 30 days!

Again, the recruiter is correct when he says there are only so many jobs available per recruiting area - they apportion them out based on historical data on quality of enlistees from a specific area/school....tell the recruiter that if his station doesn't have the job your son wants or is qualified for when he's ready to enlist, that he'll wait & enlist at the MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station) after he's done his physical & other final testing....tell him the counselors there have more latitude & can look nationwide for a specific job for your son....MEPS for California are: LA & San Diego in southern California, San Jose & Sacramento in north California....& tell him that if your son gets to the MEPS & the job he wants & is qualified for isn't available, its a free trip home again with them or you'll drive up & bring him home!

Oh, ask him if your son can take the computerized version in case they had him take the written one - computerized scores are usually higher.

& ask the recruiter for a breakout of "line scores" - what the lines mean/pertain to & what's needed for the specific jobs your son is interested in....&, again, if he can't give you a breakout of the numbers & jobs that you're asking for, tell him your son will wait to speak with the counselor at the MEPS....I don't know about the Marines, but Army recruiters have a small handbook they can give recruits that explain what you're asking.

Or just google "USMC MOS Codes"
 
Some more information.

Talking to my son he would prefer an aviation slot (jet mech, avionics or worst case an airframe specialist) if possible. That’s why he wants to retake the ASVAB as many times as it takes to improve his scores and get what he really wants - as apposed to "settling" for something lesser.

I’ve had the heart to heart about why he wants to be a Marine as apposed to joining one of the other branches and am convinced he’s understands that he knows he’d have and easier time of it and would have it much “cushier” in the Air Force or one of the other branches of the US Military.

I have no way of knowing for sure but I suspect one of the things that has convinced NOT to become a “wing-nut” (Air Force) is because almost all of the males on his mother’s (my ex-wife’s) side went that route as well as my oldest daughter.

That side of the family has an intense contempt for the other branches and especially the Marines and was probably part of what made him turn to seriously considering the Corps. Because at almost every opportunity that side of the family has bad mouthed the other branches and have always told Matt (& my other son’s) that the Marine Corps was way too tough for them and they’d never be able to handle it.

I seriously think that that negative attitude towards the Marines from that other side of the family backfired on them.

Anyway for now I have a meeting with the recruiter this morning to give him a copy of Matt’s birth certificate. I am going to tell him to back off and put my son on the back burner for now and allow him to re-take the ASVAB test as many times as he wants and if he gets a lower score then so be it – he’ll try again until he’s satisfied that he’s done as good as he could. Once he’s comfortable that he’d done everything possible or raised his score to the level needed to qualify for one of the jobs he wants – I will be the one who will pressure him to either “take a dump or get off the freaking of the pot”. But until that time Matt & I won’t sign anything.

But if this guy persists in pressuring my son, – I will take Tony's advice & as much as it pains me I'm going to threaten to walk my son over to the Army recruiter, or one of the other Branches of the military.
 
Take this old Colonels advice as well. Tony layed it out. Use it as a check list.
 
I am impressed with the Colonels advice.

Bret that sounds like a good approach from here.

Pat
 
NEVER: trust a recruiter EVER!
Going back to 1967, I was promised {By an ARMY recruiter} I would get a 67-a-10 M.O.S. which is exactly what I did get!
However, the recruiter blatantly lied to me, telling me it was a Helicopter mechanic. AND that I would be repairing Helicopters "In a Shop" environment. YEA RIGHT!! After my A.I.T. {1968}I went straight to Da Nang, Vietnam. You Guessed it, YEP a UH-1 {Huey} crewchief {nothing more than the "other" door gunner}. The next 12 months of my Military experiance, ...... well lets just call it your worst nightmare.
When E.T.S. finally rolled around Lets just say I told the re enlistment officer NOT ONLY NO BUT HE** NO.
 
I'd never say that they lie - paint a Rosy picture maybe, but I'd never trust'em any more than I would any salesmen. About the only thing you can rely on is for them to be looking out for their own best interests in order to get their quota.

Honestly, I feel I was pretty lucky when I enlisted 30 some'od years ago.

I walked in the recruiting office on December 26th 1976 and told them I wanted to enlist before the end of the year. I swear their mouths must've about dropped to the floor and there was a distinct & noticeable silent pause in the room afterwards.

The reason for my hast was two fold – I’d always talked about joining the Corps and wanted to get in on the old Vietnam era GI Bill for collage assistance. But I’d been dragging my feet for months and the recruiter’s all be given up on me by that point. But that morning my step dad reminded me that I needed to enlist before the end of the year or else I’d miss out. I told him that I wasn’t sure I was really ready thought I’d wait to see what the next GI benefits package was like (turned out to be a pretty crummy deal btw) after the New Year.

Well my step dad grumbled for a moment or two and nodded approvingly and said “Ok, that’s fine – tell ya what why don’t you go for a walk and don’t come back until you have the enlistment paperwork in hand for your mother to sign” Shocked I found myself walking five miles and walked into the recruiters office a few hours later.

The recruiter was beside himself getting all his paperwork in order and dusting off my old file. He thought for sure I’d back out when he said there was no way he could guarantee an MOS because there wasn’t enough time. But promised me he’d try to have something in writing before I left for boot camp. True or not - I agreed, had my mother sign the paperwork and was sworn in at about 8PM on New Year’s Eve 1976 just making it under the wire for the old GI Bill.

The next 9 months I kept nagging the recruiter about getting a contract and while he wasn’t under any obligation – I wrangled my way into and got a signed agreement for an Aviation contract. Ended up being a Jet engine mech and later became a UH-1N Huey Crewchief. I was extremely lucky. Of course the recruiter wanted me to go early and that might have been my only leverage to get a contract. Other than that I’m sure I would’ve been a Gravel Cruncher.
 
Another thing: ask the Marine recruiter exactly what is promised - on paper - so far as specific MOS's are concerned....I still don't think the Marines guarantee a specific MOS until after a person is successful at boot camp...prior to boot camp, I think, all they promise is a "family of MOS's"....make sure! Have him show you the enlistment papers as they would be filled out.

I know the Army goes all the way down to the specific job in their enlistment papers, but not sure about the Marines.

Now, having said all that, your son's gonna need to get some real high line scores in a couple of places...make sure the recruiter can show you which lines are important for the aviation job he wants....in addition to concentrating on raising his overall score, he needs to score high on those specific lines that have to do with aviation (think they're mechanical aptitude, math & science - myabe 1 more).
 
Thanks Tony,

Matt scored highest in the math as I recall. Not so good in the others.

But I think you're correct the Marines don't put in writing an exact MOS - I mean I think you get a wish list of say three choices that you qualified for in testing.

After boot camp is when you know what & where you're going for training. In my case I didn't know I was going to be in a Huey outfit until the day I graduated from my Basic Helo class and arrived at my next duty station. Some guys got CH-53s, some CH-46s while others got AH-1J Cobras. Me I got lucky and got N model Hueys. But from day one I knew I was going to be a jet engine & power trains mech & work on Helicopters. Just didn't know what kind.

But from what I can tell Matt will have a similar situation and will have it written that he is guaranteed one of his three choices listed on his wish list.

The plan is to take as many of the sample tests available on-line as well as some ASVAB training & interactive training material. Hope to bring up his hands on & mechanical scores.
 
That is the way the Marines work. You will get into the general area that you are signing up for (should you complete boot camp). Even then, if there is a shortage somewhere in the Corps, he will be sent there. They do let you pick three choices for MOS, but I know that the field that is shortest will probably be the one he gets into.

When I signed up, I was looking to be an Amtrack or tank mechanic, and wound up as a 3521 (basic automotive mechanic). When I re-enlisted, I chose to move my field, and got into the intelligence field. The key to the move was that there were lots of truck mechanics, and not a lot of Intel people out there, so I was able to move. If that field was full, I would have stayed in Motor T.

I know the recruiter is pushing, but these days, they are not going to let a lead go. I'm sure if you talk to him, the recruiter will back off.

No matter what your son decides, could you pass along my thanks to him for his service? Wish him good luck in the Corps. Semper Fi!
 
That's pretty much the way it was when I joined the Corps in the early 90s. I signed up, got a "Maintenance" guarantee (NOT an MOS guarantee), I completed boot camp, and during "MCT" I got to make my top 3 picks from the "Maintenance" grouping. Lucky for me, I got my number 1 pick... 2171 Electro-Optical Ordnance Maintenance

Funny thing to me, I clearly recall one of my MCT instructors showing us a Crew Served Weapon "Star Light Scope" and then looking around at all of us he said, "none of you will ever see the insides of one". 2 months later, I was disassembling and trouble shooting one in a class room. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
 
GregW said:
I’ll agree with the recruiter about getting a lower score on a retest, that’s exactly what happened to me on my SATs. First test, with no studying, I went to a party, got drunk, very little sleep. Second time around I had taken an SAT class, studied, got the sleep, but my score was 40-60 points less. Just goes to show that our education system can really dumb you down..
I'm not saying it will happen, just that it can.
Click to expand...

First time I took the SAT, I didn't get drunk or anything the night before, but don't remember doing a whole lot of hardcore preparation. My verbal score was over 200 points higher than the math, which was cause for concern at my school. So, I worked with all kinds of teachers and tutors and got all geared up to take the test again. I took it again, and might have gained six more points in math, and verbal stayed almost exactly the same. I remember being pretty hot about the wasted time and money.
 
Brooklands said:
A Philadelphia TV station did a series of reports on Army Recruiters out right lying to get kids to sign, so be leery of an over-eager recruiter.
Click to expand...

Really? You gotta be kidding. A recruiter lying? Never heard of such a thing? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif
 
GregW said:
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif I know the feeling. Did you go have a drink then?
Click to expand...

Had I known then what I know now, I just might have. The school would have come quite near to expelling me for that had they been able to catch me. Now, I did order a beer one time as a high school senior just to see if I could. It was at a billiard place we all liked. It was a tense moment because I almost expected a posse of teachers and administrators to burst through the door and cart me off to a meeting of the discipline committee. Not only did I get the beer without incident and enjoyed it, but the lass behind the bar showed me a picture of herself naked in one of the infamous skin mags.

As far as college goes, I took the ACT once and got a good score, which was all the university seemed to care about.
 
My youngest had a "guaranteed MOS" from the Marines!!(Just re-upped for another 4!)
 
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