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Metal Sludge in Oil Pan

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Morris

Morris

Yoda
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I pulled the pan on my car last weekend when I changed the oil for the first time after the new rebuild. I found a small amount of "metal sludge" in the bottom of the pan. Is this something to be concerned about?
 
Define "metal sludge" for me, please.
 
Very fine metal particles glommed together in a nasty "sludge." There was maybe a couple of teaspoons of this stuff on the bottom of the pan.
 
What we hope it means is that the block, head was not cleaned as good as it might have been.

Hope you have a magnetic oil drain plug. There will almost always be some of that on a new engine as things run in. Especialy if you did the rebuild your self rather than a race shop or what ever.

Comment Hap??
 
Is the oil pressure good?...if so keep driving it. Bearings will sluff off fine bits(fine meaning you really have a hard time feeling them) on break in. Change the oil a second time and you will likely see less if not any of this stuff....your results may very...depends on the builder and machinist and other things like phases of the moon, rotating speed of the earth and sun spot activity.
Oh heck I don't know...just drive it.
 
Check your crank thrust (by moving the crank fore and aft). If it's more than about 0.014" you may need thrust washers.
If thrust is OK and the oil pressure is good, you're probably OK for now.
And as jolly says, change the oil again soon and see if it's better.
Mine always has some of that in the pan (I change rod bearing about every 25 hours or so).
 
We always used a Oberg tattle tale oil filter as first of two oil filters in the wet sump racing engines. For you that are mot familar with a Oberg oil filter its a oil filter that has a reusable microscreen filter in it. The reason we used this was to see what was being caught by the filter without cutting spin on filters apart. The first thing you begin to realize is there is no such thing as perfectly clean, debris-free motor, you always find something in there. On fresh rebuilds that's when you will se the most stuff in tattle tale filter. We spent alot time over the years looking at debris we found and identifying it, what we find most in a new engine is ring scrubbings, silicone and paper towell and shop rag lint, that's probably all you are seeing, In fact after seeing so much shop rag and paper towell lint in the filter I now use coffee filters as a wipe cloth when assembling engines because it is one of the few papers speced by the goverment to be somewhat lint free, find out later my brother in law who build turbine helicopter engines for the miltary uses coffee filters as well. Bottom line there is no such thing as no debris in a engine otherwise there would be no need for a filter and it only reasonable to think some of it stayed in the pan and didn't get suck up by the strainer screen, especailly the big stuff.

I guess my question would be what were you doing pulling the pan off a fresh motor in the first place, if the answer is to just look around and check on it, then I perfectly understand, I have the same disease /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
The answer is:

1) To have a look around

2) Put in brand new rod bolts (I know... I know... I ran out of cash when I was putting everything back together).

3) To glue the oil pan gasket on with Permatex Ultra Blue. I used Hylomar before and that only gently discouraged the oil from spilling all over the driveway.
 
At least we all agree. Good feeling.
 
No, actualy, we don't - IMHO there's no place on an MG where one neds to use Permatex to "glue" a part on....& I say that from the voewpoint of a guy who's had to disassemble all those glued parts...when I build an engine, I clean everything & make sure all surfaces are level...then, I install the gasket & proper torque on bolts...but, I do not use nor recommend Permatex or any other "glue"...just my opinion though.
 
Oh, that prmatex line was after I wrote but before I posted I guess.

However, I use permatex on everything, the soft non harding kind and don't usually have any leaks at all. Of course clean and gaskets as well. The soft permatex comes off nicely when you need to go in again.

NOT THE PERMATEX #1 THE HARDING KIND. NO USE FOR THAT.
 
[ QUOTE ]
No, actualy, we don't - IMHO there's no place on an MG where one neds to use Permatex to "glue" a part on......

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that Morris has a 1500 Midget, so it's not really an MG engine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
 
""""" There was maybe a couple of teaspoons of this stuff on the bottom """"""

OUCH!

For even a street motor thats one spoon too many for a fresh motor. I would investigate further as long as the pan is off.

Hap is right on the engine prep......a really good neobnenium (SP?) magnet and not just an ordinary magnet will catch the ferous particles.....the thrust washers /bearing material need an "aluminum magnet" so thats out........

Cleanliness is always a problem for the first (or second time) engine assembler. You really need to make it a priority and spend the time removing ALL plugs and use a bore brush in ALL holes, especially those oil holes that make right angles and intersect. Kimwipes (or coffee filters), a clening tank that FILTERS the solvent, and some stff bore brushes are a start. That is only astart...then comes the scrub a dub with a hose, hot water and Palmolive dish soap for that good "motor smell".
 
I've got a sign that I've had for ages, that says "Cleanliness is Next to Reliability". Having a long aircraft history, I want every thing squeaky clean. I've even thought of investing in an ultrasonic cleaner for myself.
Maybe a bit off subject, but if you lunch an engine, and are running an oil cooler, throw the cooler away and get a new one. The cost of a new cooler is nothing compared to what it will be if a piece of garbage gets stuck in the cooler and finds it's way into the fresh engine. I run a filter before the cooler, and if I've truly "blowed one up real good", I still toss the cooler. Maybe anal on my part, but I sleep better. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Jeff
 
Morris' comment on rods bolts brought something to mind, bear with me, I'm getting a little bit off topic here. I used new OE replacement rod bolts in most stock engines I build and for the race motors or upon request on street engines use ARP rod bolts. Well as it turns out 1275 OE replacment rod bolts are more expensive than ARP (shock), on the MGBs OE replcement is about half the price of ARP. I have not compared 1500 rod boltss yet. I thought that was kinda weird on the 1275 rod bolts though.
 
I looked into to several places to get rod bolts besides VB/Moss (including ARP). In fact, that is the main reason I am changing out the rod bolts after the rebuild.

I had read that Ford Cosworth rod bolts are a perfect fit for the 1500. According to O'Reilly's website, I could pick up a set of Cosworth bolts from them for about 13.00. I got all my parts in to finish my rebuild, went to O'Reilly, and they told me they could no longer get the bolts. Doh!

Anyway... short story looooong... the Moss bolts (from Tony) were the cheapest I could find.
 
Hap,
I got my rod bolts from Summit Racing for $77.39 for the 1275, part # ARP-206-6001 compared to an un-discounted Moss price of $138.80. I just looked up the spitfire / 1500 rod bolts, part # ARP-206-6004, and they are $51.39; list Moss would be $39.60.
For con rods that are tapped for the rod bolt, does it make sense to use ARP hardware or is the rod still going to be the weak link?
 
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