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Looking to get into racing, lots of silly questions

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Darel

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I have an '85 XJ-S that I'm looking to sell in the spring and pick up a TR3/4/6. I would like to get into racing in some form but have zero experience and no real acquaintances that do either. Here's what I would like to do, please let me know if there's something that fits the bill:

- road courses, preferably against other cars but timed is OK
- relatively stock street cars - picture a bone stock TR with maybe a rollbar and fire extinguisher, maybe some harnesses. Keep it cheap and fun. I will NOT under any circumstances have a dedicated race car, and more than likely it will be a nearly-daily-driver, so some sort of a stock class is very important.
- Race events are fairly widespread and relatively often - I live in PA so no biggie to drive to NY, NJ, MD, VA, maybe 4-6 times per year. Even closer and more often would be pretty awesome. I know SCCA sets up lots of stuff in mall parking lots, airports, etc but they're not really "vintage".

Figured I'd start looking into this before I buy a car and maybe I can tailor my search a little bit. Thanks for helping me out, I really have no idea what to start looking for and when I look into individual race circuits' websites not knowing the jargon is really hampering the learning curve.

Thanks!
Darel
 
Before you start spending money, go to several different types of events and figure out exactly what you want to do, but it sounds like you want a car built to run open track days or club events. Look into clubs like COM, and EMRA. EMRA in particular has a good program to lead you from track days to all out road racing. Cars built to autocross don't necessarily translate to open track days, and certainly not to vintage road racing events. This is due to safety requirements. The cheapest way in would be either a sprite/midget or a TR7. I saw a TR7 road race car for sale a couple of months ago for $2500. You could have used that car in just about any race event you wanted to enter. I see your from Mountain Top. I'm originally from Nescopeck and boy do I miss the old neighborhood.
 
Thanks Todd! I'll look into those guys.

I've actually got a bud with a 912 and a Mog 4/4 (and an '07 Elise, but that doesn't count) I might be able to talk into going a few laps too. Next time you're back in NEPA lets get a few beers!
 
If your looking to get your feet wet and not spend alot of money, look into SCCA's IT (ITA (slowest) -> ITE ( Most expensive)) classes. Mostly front wheel drive, production based cars that you're not allowed to do a ton of mods to. They all will need a roll cage and personal safety gear but some of the classes don't even require a fuel cell ($800-1000). They have large fields, you'll always find someone to race with and as a bonus, there's a money paying enduro (2-4 hour races) series in the northeast (Pro-IT) that will get you a a bud a ton of track time in the same car.

EMRA has a progressive series, start off on a racetrack doing time trials and eventually move to fender to fender racing.

If you do decide to do a TR, come race with us, Historic Race Group, an SCCA vintage racing series. Links to all this stuff below.

mike
63 Spit racer

HRG https://historicracinggroup.yolasite.com/

Track and racing info - https://historicracinggroup.yolasite.com/track-info-and-other-links.php

SCCA - https://www.scca.com/clubracing/

SCCA Car classifications - https://www.scca.com/clubracing/content.cfm?cid=44726

SCCA - Race Cars for sale https://www.sccabb.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=74&title=club-racing-classifieds


Pro IT series - https://www.proitseries.com/
 
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ITC is the slowest. Populated by 1600cc Rabbits, 1500cc civics. Next is ITB. That's where Volvos, Opels, BMW 2002s, Honda accords run. ITA is 1800 cc VWs, Integras and the like. ITS is for 240Zs, BMW 325is, Porsche 944, and my favorite the TR8. ITR catches some of the newer faster BMWs, Porsche 928, and Honda S2000. ITE is just about everything else that's too fast to class or has mods that push it out of the other IT classes. It's populated by race prep Mustangs, Corvettes, 911s, Vipers. Believe it or not, I had better luck modifying my TR8 beyond the rules of ITS and ran in ITE with better results. Plus it was fun beating up on $100,000 cars. On the surface, IT seems cheap, but it isn't. Plan on spending at least $1000 a weekend to run in these classes. Slower is cheaper. A Vette can go thru $1500 in race tires in a weekend.
 
tr8todd said:
A Vette can go thru $1500 in race tires in a weekend.
Click to expand...

We'd burn up $4K in tires in a single race with the ITE enduro car.


So, you wanna race? Here's the next best thing: Drive down the highway throwing cash out the window. In the end you'll have the same results except you'll be guarenteed no one will pass you. :congratulatory:
 
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Yes, EMRA can be decent (I used to be the EMRA RaceChair, year ago).

----> https://www.emraracing.org/

C.A.R.T is a great group that runs track days (at Pocono), autocrosses and rallys.

----> https://www.cartct.com/

And COM is a good group too.

----> https://www.comscc.org/

If you are less interested in vintage cars, NASA NorthEast is excellent (I'm a member)

----> https://www.nasane.com/

Another, newer group that might work really well for you IMG.

----> https://www.imgracing.com/

This group (run by Charlie Greenhaus) will teach you in their cars or your's. And they have track days as well as wheel to wheel racing. Charlie is in Sacramento PA. Phone is 570.682.9666

None of the groups above are particularly "vintage" and most will emphasize newer sport-compact imports along with E30 BMWs, various newer 911s, RX7s, Corvettes, Mustangs, etc.

For more vintage-type racing locally, HRG (as mentioned above) is a good group as well as the VDCA and VARAC (Canadian).
I see plenty of streetable race cars at vintage events, but personally, I think it's more expensive and complicated than having a dedicated race car (I tried it).

My group is VRG and we run events in the northeast USA.

----> https://www.vrgonline.org/events/

You can see videos and photos from many VRG events here

----> https://vintageracer.tripod.com/events.html

If you ever want to come to a VRG event, let me know....I should be at all of them in 2013.

If you are happy with running mid-pack in a mostly stock-ish small bore car (Sprite, Midget, Spitfire, etc) and are willing to camp at the track, vintage racing can be pretty affordable.
 
The advice here is good. I belong to the St. Louis Region SCCA and this year, for the first time, they are going to try and pair up with the Vintage Racers. VSRA, HSR, and etc. You may have a branch of a racing club near you, or closer than you think. Check in with them and attend a meeting. I'll bet you will be helped in advice very quickly. The racing clubs are in the time when the attrition of older is slower and the young ones are not following in parents foot steps. They will be glad to assist you and there are perks and discounts from the club sponsors to help in travel, and tires and parts along with the safety equipment needed. This is not as expensive as most think. We have Solo ( parking lot cone racers ) that have more expensive cars and equipment. Also, the owners of the racetracks are discounting because of low turnouts and cancelled events. There are also things called PDX/PDE performance driving experience, in which you drive car at speed with minimal safety equipment, helmets and cotton clothing with long sleeves, rollbar for convertibles, etc. Come out and have fun. By the way, if really serious, sell now and buy what you want and get it ready for Spring.
 
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Darel,

I'm new to these forums but thought I might provide some rookie insight. A few years ago I became involved in vintage racing with a 1959 MGA. I had absolutely no experience, had never been to the track, did not follow racing on TV. I went to a VSCCA event at Lime Rock Park in Connecticut to keep a corner worker company. After about an hour, I said "To **** with this corner worker stuff! I want to be out there!" Eventually I found a lightly prepared MGA "race" car. It's not competitive, but it is tons of fun.

I'm mostly solo at all events; but have received wonderful help from other drivers or their crew. The paddock comraderie is great!

The VSCCA normally has a year cut off at 1959. But they are showing more flexibility recently and letting 1960 cars run. I suspect a TR3 or TR4 would not be a problem. Check out the VSCCA (Vintage Sports Car Club of America) website. About 25% of the cars are streetable and driven to the track. You would need a Nomex suit, a helmet a fire extinguisher. Roll bar strongly suggested. The do run a "preservation" classification.

VSCCA home track is Lime Rock. But they run at Pocono and sanction the Hershy Hill Climb.

The VSCCA runs "races" - but no winners declared, no points. Often, the field strings out and you find yourself racing with one or two similarly powered cars. I'm mid pack for under 2 liter, and usually mixing it up with two other MGAs.

The VSCCA school is at Pocono in March. Any suitable (non vintage) car allowed. If VSCCA is something you want to do, try to get to that school.

As an alternative, you should consider running some HPDE (High Performance Drivers Education) events. Sports Car Drivers Association and National Auto Sports Association are two sponsors. I've done those in a modern sports car. Aeronca, above, suggested Conn. Autocross and Rally Team (C.A.R.T.) I've done several track days with them in the MGA. They do require a roll bar.

Here's a link to a short videa where I actually pass some cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQfFpYinr-Q


My trials and tribulations from beginning to end are explored in these threads on an S2000 site. It may be about as interesting as moving Heavy Furniture, but I probably started about where you are now. Just scroll through quickly and read my longer posts.

Am I Nuts? Need Help!

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/739936-am-i-nuts-need-help/page__hl__am+i+nuts

Blueosprey Goes Racing

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/779775-jeff-blueosprey90-goes-racing-in-his-mg-a

MG on Track Season 2

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/852292-mg-on-track-blueosprey-season-2

MG On Track Season 3

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/948989-mg-on-track-blueosprey-season-3/
 
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When someone mentions racing & money,I'm reminded of Lord Hesketh,
who made a small fortune racing cars - unfortunatly,he started with a LARGE fortune.

- Doug
 
Since you seem fairly open to the type of racing I would suggest you try autocrossing, it is possible to have a lot of fun and spend less money. If you want to get serious about it you can spend a lot of money on Auto-x too, but you can have fun without spending too much in mods to a street car, or old LBC. The SCCA, NASA (I think) and even local clubs like ours run autocrosses all over the country, in cities large and small. Autocrossing is very intense for a short period of time and you can drive your car at the limit without too much risk of major damage, and because the runs are short and quick you take lot longer to wear out tires and brake pads. Also fits in with your idea of keeping the car very streetable. Best bet is to see if you can bum a ride in a buddies car for a trackday and an autocross and see which you like.
 
You're not too far away from Summit Point W Va. If you want to see some good SCCA regional racing, and have the chance to get a close look at a whole panoply of cars, ranging from more-or-less highly prepped production cars (like mine) or some quality IT cars, post back on here or send me a pm and I will get you on my crew list for the season opening MARRS race, set for the weekend of April 13-14. Signing up for my crew will not oblige you to any labor, I am accustomed to handling everything myself. But you would have the opprotunity to walk around and poke at 200+ race cars in one spot, and most racers are only too happy to answer questions (assuming they are not up to the armpits in a transmission swap or whatever). Mike MacQueen
 
And if you want to see some vintage racing and cars the VRG Jefferson 500 takes place at Summit Point May 15-19. If you're interested in attending send me a PM.
 
Why not consider 24 Hours Lemons or Chumpcar endurance racing for your XJS? A good cage for that would cost about $2k and that would be your biggest cost. A fire suppression system for $4-500. Don't forget to figure in your personal safety gear. Once you get the initial outlays out of the way, I spend about $600 for each race weekend (x4 as you need teammates). For that, I get 4 hours of wheel to wheel track time. I'm sure the SCCA/NASA/etc crowd will poo poo those series but the reality is that I've been involved in racing for years and I've never had as much fun as I've had over the last 3 years. I've also run 2 true 24 hour events and run bucket list type tracks like Laguna Seca. You can also arrange and Arrive and Drive with some teams to see if it's your cup of tea. In fact, I would encourage a newbie to go that route before you jump in feet first. Outfits like Race Suit Rentals will even rent your gear for your race weekend.

Here's my XJ12 going through the corkscrew at Laguna Seca
IMG_7546.jpg
 
I understand that Oregon Region SCCA is now incorporating Chump Cars into their events in 2013. Last year I had the opportunity to do a Chump Car race at PIR. It was a 14 hour enduro with 7 hours on Saturday and 7 hours on Sunday.... a 4 man team of drivers. Fortunately the guy that prepared the car and asked me to be on his team had done a good job of preparing the car, so it was a good experience. We finished 4th out of 60 cars.
I think Chump Car racing is becoming the fastest growing segment in motorsports today. Because every race is an enduro, you will be part of a team. I think it is a great way for a newbee to get involved and learn about racing before committing to buy a car and spending all that money necessary to prep it.
 
A few regions around the country are incorporating rules to allow crapcans (IT-J I believe they are calling it) as their car counts go down and the Lemons/Chump counts go up. Note that each series has it's strengths and weaknesses in regions around the country. Also note that one can't make the blanket statement that Lemons or Chump is better. Lemons has zero presence in the Pacific Northwest as they cancelled races there due to lack of interest but Chump is very strong there. In Southern California, Chump has already cancelled one race this year and their races can get boring because there's so few cars on the track but Lemons races are full. For example, last year Chump and Lemons ran at the same California track 2 weeks apart. Chump drew 25 cars and Lemons drew 125. The same thing happened in Texas but the numbers were more or less reversed. One nice thing that Chump does is have an EC class that will allowed prepared race cars (that are reasonably close in speed to the regular cars) to also race, but in their own class. So a smallish bore SCCA/NASA racecar can be run for laps or testing. Generally, I see outfits like Hennessy Racing/949 Racing bring their M3/Spec Pinatas out to run EC. Some people have run them as a practice run for the 25 Hours of Thunderhill and races like that. For the real masochists, Chump is running a 36 Hour event at Spokane this summer.
 
My friend is selling a very nice race ready '62 Formula V with VSCCA logbook.

I think he only took it out four times in the last three years. He's asking $12,000 for the car, $1,500 for the enclosed trailer. I think he was turning laps of 1:16 to 1:18 at Lime Rock.

It's on the VSCCA website, under the links for "classified", then "members" - although you don't need to be a member to see it. Comes up under Gullwing search. Located in Connecticut
 
My StlSCCA Region has implemented a beginners race training in co-operation with our Reg. Double School in April. The word is out for loaner cars ($), fire suits, gloves, shoes, helmets ( own prefered ) and anything to help the beginner get through the school as cheap as possible. They even are trying to find sponsors to help defray costs. Once they complete the school, they will race 2 Regional races and come out with their Regional licences. This is to get them in the car and put the bug in them to get to it. We are also teaming up with the Vintage Racing groups to have a way for them to race within or National Races in their own prospective classes. www.StlSCCA.org.
 
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