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Little project turns into a real big project!

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Bret

Bret

Yoda
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Ok this really sucks! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

All I wanted to do was change a few radiator hoses and the thermostat this weekend on my Porsche. Then things got complicated when I had the misfoutune to break off one of the retaining bolts to the thermostat housing.

crap_copy1.jpg


I've already tried to use a screw extractor but it must've been galled, because that snapped off too leaving the tip of the extractor behind.

Shazbot! (not the vehicular I used), was all I could say when I heard the thing go SNAP!

Time to regroup. Thoughts! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif
 
Oh wow. I would suggest that you do a centre-punch right in the middle, and maybe drill down the centre, with a high-end bit just a little smaller in diameter than the bolt. Thena good tap should strip out the remainder of the bolt and hoefully you should be left with undamaged threads. In theory.

Alternatively drill the bolt out, and re-thread.

That's what I would do in any case.
 
Bret:
If you gonna drill that out, make sure you drill srtaight, avoid drilling into the housing cause if you were to break a tap off in a hole that is off center into the housing, it serves as a lock, to forever lock that broken bolt in place.
My suggestion is to NOT drill it at all, but instead weld a nut onto the portion of the bolt that is protruding out of the housing. Immediately after welding the nut on and it has turned from red to dark try to turn the bolt out. Even if the threads are destroyed in the housing you may be able to helicoil it. If not someone with T.I.G. welding skills can repair the housing back to like new.
The trick in drilling it out is to drill the first hole dead center and straight. Then increase drill size one or two sizes and redrill. Do this until you have removed all of the bolt minus the threads. Then lastly use a tap to remove the remaning steel bolt threads. This method can work but the skill level required in my opinion from one to ten is a ten +
in any case, GOOD LUCK!
Kerry
 
That's going to be a tough one, with the extractor snapped off. If you can get a solid carbide drill bit from a local tool house, you may be able to very carefully drill the extractor out. I even hate doing jobs like that on the Bridgeport!
Jeff
 
Couple of things I've done.

Took a deep breath and drank a couple of beers. Then I checked my options.

I have a couple of diamond tipped Dremel tool bits that I’ll try to get the extractor bit out with. Once that’s done I’ll try to drill it out further and gradually increase the size of the drill bit until the screw can hopefully be removed. Whatever happens I suspect I’ll have to re-tap the threads or step up a bold size.

Worst case – it turns out the thermostat crossover housing is held in place by four bolts and once all the stuff is cleared out of the way it’s pretty easy to remove. So should I need to replace the cross over housing or have to remove it to have it worked on I am prepping the bolts with some good penetrating oil.
 
I've heard that getting "reverse" direction bits to do this is better because the bit is turning the same direction as bolt removal. I broke off BOTH the bolts on the Ford engine in the Gazelle, and I've spent almost a year of "thinking" about the project now. Let us know how it goes.
 
Bret, removing the crossover housing will vastly improve your chances of successfully removing the bolt. It's also <u>much</u> easier to take it to the machine shop to have it done! They'll just jig it up on the mill, cut the bolt out, extractor and all, and run a tap through the hole. At least that's how <u>I'd</u> do it.
Jeff
 
As much of a pain as it will be, I recommend removing the housing and approaching the problem from outside the engine bay - it will be much easier in the long run. Broken off bolts on an engine block is just a tough one to fix. I thought this type thing just happened to British cars.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Glenn
 
If it were a job here, the housing would have been off when the bolt broke. Getting to that in-situ to drill straight is next to impossible. No sense making it worse, IMO.

"In for a penny" an' all that jazz. Now it is *definitely* a job to be done in/by a machine shop. I'd try to NOT need a larger bolt or Heli-coil if at all possible, Heli-coil only if there's NO way to remove the original without buggering the threads. Competent machinist should be able to 'save' it, tho. On reassembly keep some anti-seize on hand.
Good luck, Bret.
 
CTC76828LO said:
As much of a pain as it will be, I recommend removing the housing and approaching the problem from outside the engine bay - it will be much easier in the long run. Broken off bolts on an engine block is just a tough one to fix. I thought this type thing just happened to British cars.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Glenn
Click to expand...

Just to let you know... our austin or jaguar has NEVER had any snaps or cracks in bolts or screws! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
 
Bret ~insisted~ on getting a car with a whole bunch of them new-fangled alloy bits under-bonnet. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
 
DrEntropy said:
Bret ~insisted~ on getting a car with a whole bunch of them new-fangled alloy bits under-bonnet. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
Click to expand...
Now that was just downright mean Doc, kick'n a man when he's down & all.
 
Hmm? Oh well, guess I may as well take this opertunity to inspect the condition of that ginormous 7 foot long timing belt while I'm under the Bonnet. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
 
Once ya "inspect" it, you're half way to changing it.

"May as well"! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] Now that was just downright mean Doc, kick'n a man when he's down & all. [/QUOTE]

You -do- know I'm enjoying this immensely, right? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif
 
DrEntropy said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] Now that was just downright mean Doc, kick'n a man when he's down & all.
Click to expand...

You -do- know I'm enjoying this immensely, right? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif [/QUOTE]
Yeah Doc I know. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif

But like my Grandma alwasys used to told me - it's better to be a smart arse than the alternative. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
 
crazy as it sounds, you may be able to shatter the extractor with a hammer and punch. If it's high carbon steel, you won't be able to drill it, but it will be brittle enough to break apart via impact. I had to do this once with a tap that got stuck in a heli-coil.
 
I would admit defeat on that one.

Or if ya wanna /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer.gif be persistent.....

Remove from car and "V" the ear out.....
(Don't go all the way into the inside..Just grind off enough to get the bolt out and hopefully leave the inside part of the hole for reference)

Then have someone tig a big glob of aluminum back on and do a little metal sculpting.

And finally re-tap.

Aluminum is easy to cut, file, sand & tap.

Personally, I'd buy a new one and smash the other one to little bits.

Then I'd say nasty things to it like......

YOU'RE GONNA BE A COORS LIGHT CAN WHEN I'M DONE WITH YOU!
-or-
HOW DO YOU LIKE MY FINAL SOLUTION YOU EVIL #@&^!
 
You ain't priced alloy V-8 Porsche bits in a while then, eh Dave? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
 
Actually....Nope...

The closest I ever got ta one of those critters was a nice little 912 about 10 years ago.

BTW Bret.....I destroyed something today to make you feel better.
NelsonLedgesMay12004-1.jpg

If you look really close.....You can see the smoke still coming out.
(Makes a nice little hand warmer when it shorts to ground /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif )
 
Dang-it! :grr:

Well fellas it only gets worse. After letting the bolts of the crossover soak in BP Blaster for the better part of two weeks (spraying it about once a day), today I tried to remove them and two came out just fine but the other two snapped off.

crap_copy2.jpg


crap2.jpg


Ok what’s done is done, so now I’m trying to get the crossover removed but it won’t budge. Some of my friends over on Rennlist are suggesting that I try to use a mallet to break it free enough to get a cutting wheel in there to cut the bolts off to remove the crossover. But I’m pf the point of view that I should write off the crossover altogether and cut it in two to get it out a there. Then once it’s out – try to remove the two bolts afterwards.

Yes Doc, I’m learning way more about aluminum parts than I originally had in mind. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Bret
 
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