Inexpensive California RB on craigslist-looks good

[davester]

Just popped up on craigslist this morning. San Francisco area (i.e. few rust issues here). I don't want an RB, so of no interest to me.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/2296440939.html

 

[Sarastro]

The problem with these in California is that everything after 1975 has to be smogged. You have to keep original smog equipment in place, even though the stuff kills the performance and doesn't reduce emissions anywhere nearly as well as modern equipment. This really limits what you can do with the car, and takes a lot of fun out of driving it. The price of such cars is, as you'd expect, depressed. They can be a good deal for people in other states, however, that don't have the same restrictions.

Looks like a handsome car, though.

 

[apbos]

Looking at the add, the car is local to me. If anyone wants me to take a look at the car let me know.
Paul

 

[davester]

The problem with these in California is that everything after 1975 has to be smogged.

Only if you keep it in specific primarily urban areas of California that have high smog levels. Many people on the board are not in those areas and might be interested.

You have to keep original smog equipment in place, even though the stuff kills the performance and doesn't reduce emissions anywhere nearly as well as modern equipment. This really limits what you can do with the car, and takes a lot of fun out of driving it.

That's not quite accurate. The smog equipment has negligible effect on performance and this car has a catalytic converter and air injection system which has a huge impact on smog production. No doubt more modern equipment does a better job of emissions cleanup but any cat-equipped car outputs dramatically less smog than earlier cars. As far as performance is concerned, this car does suffer a hit because of the restrictive factory exhaust manifold that was used to accommodate the cat, but many people find that they have lots of fun driving these. Note that the original bugeye only had 46 hp, whereas the smogged 1500 had 53.

 

[Sarastro]

Well, those areas comprise virtually the entire urban part of the state, and much that is almost rural. See https://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm#BM2539.

As for performance, any time you compromise performance for other criteria, it'll cost you something. That's inevitable. The big problem with the 1970s-era smog equipment was not so much that it didn't work when everything was perfect, but any mistuning and the performance dropped off quickly. Catalytic converters are sensitive to mixture, for example, and if you get that wrong, the converter gets gunked up quickly. I remember auto-magazine articles from the era (I think there was one in Road and Track) reporting tests of these systems in the real world, and they weren't impressive. Cat converters were, of course, a big improvement over 60s-era equipment, but only when they worked.

In any case, they have to stand on their own merits. It's not valid to compare them to unsmogged cars. Anything will look good in comparison, since unsmogged cars were so bad.

 

[davester]

As for performance, any time you compromise performance for other criteria, it'll cost you something. That's inevitable. The big problem with the 1970s-era smog equipment was not so much that it didn't work when everything was perfect, but any mistuning and the performance dropped off quickly.

In very general terms I agree with you. However, reducing emissions in many cases involved increasing the completeness of the combustion process to keep unburned fuel out of the exhaust stream. The air injection system for example is not sensitive to tuning and the power needed to run the air pump is negligible and not noticeable to anybody but a race car driver looking for seconds off lap times. The evap control system has zero performance hit unless you include the weight drag of about 10 lbs of equipment. Both of these systems dramatically reduce a car's smog production. The EGR valve is a special case. Shortly after they were introduced, engine designers discovered that they INCREASED performance and gas mileage if properly designed because they allowed better control of combustion temperatures. Many racers run EGR systems because of this.

The only MG smog control items that negatively affect performance in any noticeable way are the lowered compression ratio, retarding of ignition timing and the restrictive manifolds/single ZS carb on post '74 cars (this design was due to the space requirements for the cat converter and brake booster combined with the unwillingness of BL to spend money on redesign work to accomodate these parts). If a cat converter is gunking up due to overly rich mixture then both the performance and emissions are taking a big hit.