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hello and help, my baby won't start

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prmac

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Hi, I'm new to the site. I have a 76 MGB I bought in 91. On the infamous 7/11 I owned it for 10 years but put the champaigne back on ice. Racing is my favorate spectator sport so I was anxious to take the MGB down to Watkins Glen, New York for the Vintage races. I live in Ontario Canada on the North Shore of Lake Huron in a small town called Spanish. There is frost on the ground this morning so we are getting close to the end of the summer season.
Anyway, the MG was running good; I had driven it to Montreal, then home, then to Indianapolis for the Formula 1 races with no mechanical misadventures. But there was some small chugging on rare occation. I thought a setting of the points and timing would pep me up. THEN! I made the mistake of listening to friends and allowing a mutual aquaintance try to set them. (I recently moved here from Toronto where British mechanics and parts are readily available) No sooner than I could wrench him away from the car, it was bogging down on acceleration and it was getting harder to start. When he tried to time it, there was a shorting affect when he touched the Distributer. I figured I better cut my losses and limp it home where I could reset it myself. Unfortunately after going a few miles and backfiring like a machine gun the car died and I had to get it towed home.
I checked the wires and put them to the correct plugs but now when I tried to start the car, the engine turned (the ignition light did not come on) but the positive terminal at the battery sizzled and I ceased. I have replaced the plugs, starter and coil and the engine turned for a while but now the starter just spins, (still no ignition light) Though I am putting the girl away for the winter I would like to hear her start once before I do. Besides, with the kids back in school the winding dirt roads are begging to be rallied. I will check the ignition light tomorrow to make sure it is not just the bulb but other than that, I am at a lost what to try next. I am rural so parts take a couple days to get to me and auto eletricians are a couple hours away. I'm reasonably handy and have tools and I hope someone out there can help. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Hello,and welcome to the BCF! Pity your first post has to be a problem, but you should get it sorted here......not neccessarily by me, but the group input is always useful. Anyhoo, the positive lead sizzling is odd. First thing, check the earth strap. This is found on the passenger side of the engine bay, connecting the block to the firewall. Check that the terminals are clean and securely mounted. A poor connection here might cause the assorted problems you are describing. Even if it looks okay bit wouldn't hurt to disconnect it, clean it thoroughly and then re-attach it properly. Try that, if it works then you're in good shape. You mentioned the starter spinning, is it not connecting with the ring gear at all? Or is the sound more of a "crackle"? That is an indication of a poor earth strap connection. Try that first, and let us know. Good luck.
 
[ QUOTE ]
On the infamous 7/11 I owned it for 10 years

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the infamous 7/11 ??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Thought perhaps it was a convenience store that went bad.

Bruce
 
Sounds like the timing and/or ignition are out of whack. Perhaps purely coincidence but maybe the distibutor packed up? When setting the timing did the person doing it tighten the distirbutor? Possibly a cracked cap?

I would start all over with the timing, check rotor, check points. Cap is OK. You said the plug wires are on correctly and in correct order but I would check one more time. Two wires out of sequence can make it sound like you explained.

No idea why the battery cable would sizzle. Any other wires that were removed and not back right?

Battery wires hooked up backward?

Bruce
 
My two cents worth. Usually a battery terminal "sizzle" is caused by the current trying to fight it's way through resistance Cure is clean and tighten. If you have a timing light connect it to any plug to see if there is current coming out of the distributor. It is not uncommon for the points to become grounded inside the distributor, or the flimsy lead inside to have a bare spot stopping all ignition. If new points are installed "dry" the rubbing block could wear quickly decreasing the point gap resulting in no ignition. Once every 1oo years a condenser will wear out or short with the same result. All the above should be easy and cheap to check and or repair. Bob
 
Replace the ignition light bulb. The bloody idiots tied it to the start circuit. I know this only because I found out the hard way.
 
Thank you for all your input. I will be trying all the suggestions on Monday.
7/11 - September 11 - On the day the Twin World Trade Center Towers were hit by the terrorist airplanes, I owned my car for 10 years. I didn't think a party was in order- but 15 years is rapidly approaching.
 
7 is the month of July........

9 is the month of September.....

unless the year starts 2 months later up there?

sorry... i hate to be a smart arse... but sometimes opportunities present themselves in an irresistible manner... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
The thinly insulated pigtail that Dave refers to is the low tension lead. I recently had one fail on a '72 Midget, resulting in exactly the symptoms you describe. Popped in a new one, and have been trouble free since.
I used to deal with a parts store that practically wouldn't sell you a set of points unless you bought a new low tension lead!
Jeff
 
Hi Mac,
Let me also welcome you to the forum.
Bob Claffee gives good advice.

I think that you may have more than one problem however. A sizzling or even warm battery terminal connection is ALWAYS an indication of of a high resistance connection. Sometimes the heat of sizzle will expand the connection enough to make a temporary connection. I once had one that required about 10 seconds of sizzle before finally making good enough contact to crank the engine.

"If" the battery has the helmet type connectors, any mismatch between helmet & battery post size or taper can cause a questionable connection, as of course can corrosion. The helmets do not always tightly fit on all replacement batteries because not all batteries have the originally intended taper & post size. Thoroughly clean the battery terminals and the inside of the connectors. If they are the helmet type, be sure that the helmet makes contact with the sides of the battery posts & not just the tops. Too aggressive cleaning of the helmet insides can cause a loose fit on the battery terminal. If the helmet bottoms all of the way down, it means that the sides are not making proper connection on the taper. Also, with extended use, the helmets tend to streatch & not make good contact with the sides of the posts. The whole setup was not one of Lucas "better ideas". Lead shims which fit between the helmet & the post are available to tighten up the taper if needed.

Replacement battery terminals that clamp onto the cable ends are a frequent source of bad connections. A battery shop can replace the connectors with very reliable crimp onto the cable, type non-helmet, non clamp to the wire connections. Make sure that they know what they are doing & actually get a very solid crimp.

A simple test is to crank the engine & feel for heat at all cable connections. Any noticeable heat anywhere is cause for a suspect connection. This includes the starter solenoid itself which can develop high internal resistance.

As far as problem number two, there is a tiny poorly insulated braided pigtail in the distributor which connects the movable point plate to the insulated distributor output terminal. this can frequently become intermittantly or even permanently grounded to the point plate with consequent intermittant or permanent point grounding & loss of ignition. Look for any signs of worn or missing insulation on this wire. The points may have been mis-adjusted or the gap closed up. Check point gap for .015" point open clearance.

As a point test, use an insulated probe to open the points when they are closed, ignition turned on of course. There should be a spark from the coil wire to ground every time the points are separated.

If there is spark from the coil during this test, replace the distributor cap & wires & crank the engine. There should be a spark at each plug wire to ground, or if cautious, connect a known good spark plug with grounded base to each wire in turn & check for a spark. If any part of this test fails, there is a problem with the cap, wires, or rotor. Sometimes the rotor insulation to it's drive shaft breaks down with the loss of all ignition.

You also listed that sometimes the starter just spins without cranking. This could be caused by the starter not spinning fast enough as listed above or by a sticky Bendix drive on the starter. If so, remove the starter & clean & lube the spiral groove on the starter shaft so that the starter gear slides very freely on the spiral shaft. Make sure that the heavy & light springs on the Bendix drive are in good condition.
D
 
I guess it is Canadian exchange thing- metric dating eh?
Of course it is 9/11- but what the heck- maybe I'll have two parties.
 
Welcome to the Forum...don't expect someone here not to make fun of someone else when given the chance! Come on folks, give the new guy a break! geeez

I just hope you don;t have an emergency here in the US sometime and phone 7-1-1 ;-)

Bruce

PS...but I do like the 2 party attitude...welcome!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Bruce, he probably meant 9/11. With the Canadian exchange rate it works out to 7/11.
Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
Don't look now, Jeff......... But.... We are catching up !!!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/canpatriot.GIF
 
Well, I changed the battery cable ends, (I have never heard of helmet connectors; I'll have to check those out to satisfy my curiosity), then I checked for the pigtail in the Distributer- There wasn't one- buddy must have taken it out when he was trying to adjust it and forgot to put it back. I made a ground and put it in(I will repalce it with the proper part later).I turned the crank to line up my timing marks and set the points. I took out the new rebuilt starter and crossed the leads and it still spun but didn't spit the gear out all the way. I put back in my old starter. I charged the battery and put it back into the Car(AC Delco- I have killed-murdered this battery numerous times and it always comes back- I would definately recommend one). I jumped the battery with my Winter beater for an extra boost. I let the gas flow a bit, set the choke, turned the key and with a bit of foot play- Vroom. I reset the timing, (there must be a trick to hooking the timing light to the battery in the back- I just used the battery of the Beater since it was there). I took it for a drive and its good as new. The light on the ignition was burnt out- I hate working under the dash!!!
I really want to thank you all for your help.
I will surely be watching this site and recommend it to other owners in the area.
 
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