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Have I made a mistake? Car is dying :[

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H82WRK

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Okay well I was all set to do the valve adjustment and try that for the clattering before ordering a new shaft. But in the meantime my little car has decided that it no longer wishes to drive under it's own power.

Step by step on what happened, I am at a loss and searching through threads to see what I can do.

1. Drive car down my road
2. Car starts to stutter
3. Push on the gas, car reacts as if it is getting any gas, complete loss of power
3. Car rolls to stop and dies
4. Attempts to restart the car mutiple times resulted in a dead battery
5. Checked all wiring, found alternator wire off, placed back on, jumped started car, no more battery issues
5. Now there is a miss when the car is gassed up to roughly 3K to 4K RPMS, plus just as added insult to injury a wonderful backfire and fire jumping out of the carb (scary!), with your foot off the gas the car wants to idle very rough and eventually die


So this is what I do, check all the basics, is the car getting fuel? Acts like it is not getting fuel, maybe the fuel filter, change out the inline fuel filter. Did not help, the fuel filter filled very very slowly, do you think it is a bad fuel pump (has an electrical fuel pump)?

My husband is mad and says that we should have looked at the car in person before buying because it has so much stuff rigged together and the wiring is a mess. And I am upset because I don't know what to do and I want to fix it not take it to a shop and not ask for hubby's help but I wonder if I made a terrible decision.

I love this little car already but I cannot understand what the previous owner did with the wiring and the engine swap. Should I start over with a new engine and harness? I am so sad that I could not enjoy the pretty weather today.

Any ideas? This is a 66 Sprite with a 948 CC weber carbed engine. I need some reassurance.

THX Rachael
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]This is a 66 Sprite with a 948 CC weber carbed engine[/QUOTE]

IMHO: Replace that Weber with an original carb setup....get an owners manual & make sure everything is to specs (tuneup as well as wiring).

Sounds like either the Weber is dumping on you or its out of time.
 
You really think it might be a timing issue? I would hate to get rid of this carb and go to those two carbs because my Dad told me when he had his that they were so hard to tune. But then again I don't want to deal with this fire stuff either!

The motor is making a terrible knocking and leaks oil, maybe I need a new motor. And the wiring, I have no idea how to fix, I have a manual but it just confuses me. I wish that I would have known that this car was not stock motor and wiring wise.
 
From the description it sounds like a fuel problem. To check the pump delivery requires you take the fuel line off the carb and route it into a container like a gallon milk jug. The delivery is rated in gallons per hour. It should (with the ignition in the "on" position, not "start") deliver about a pint in one minute of running (it should be audibly ticking). Be aware you're fooling around with gasoline, please. And the electrical system. Just use your head, try this first and we'll know if it's the pump or not...
Small steps. Logically. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif
 
I'd check the timing first...but expect it to be partially the carbs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]my Dad told me when he had his that they were so hard to tune[/QUOTE]

Not sayng anything bad about your dad - but once you understand them & have them set up properly, they're great & actually, IMHO, provide equal or better power than a Weber! (That'll get me slammed - watch....hehehehe)
 
"Terrible knocking"?!?!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]plus just as added insult to injury a wonderful backfire and fire jumping out of the carb (scary!), [/QUOTE]

Guessing that's either the carb or a bad distributor cap


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]The motor is making a terrible knocking and leaks oil[/QUOTE]

After it smooths out & runs right, bet most of that goes away unless it has no oil pressure at all.
 
It is a great little car and eventually you will love it. Right now you are just having a speed-bump in LBC ownership. The engine change by itself is really not much of an issue- all of the proper Sprite engines interchange pretty easily and the electricals are pretty similar all through the series (except for the alternators and the entire 1500 series, neither of which you have.) Oil leaking is a very common problem but can be minimized if a little corrective actions are taken. If the "road-tube" has been removed and replaced with a non-breathing side cover (or the road-tube plugged) then an easy fix is to let the engine breath (if you don't understand just ask- we will be happy to explain), or if it had a PCV valve which has been removed then it needs to be replaced. When someone puts a Weber on a Spridget I am always suspicious of his "racing" intentions since many people think that a "racing" engine must have all of the "smog" stuff removed- which is wrong.
Good luck and ask questions!!
Bill
 
OK--take a deep breath, smile, and recognize that (1) all these things can be fixed, often very easily, and (2) there is no evidence (yet) that this is a major problem. Repeat your LBC mantra ("someday it'll run, someday it'll run) and when you have finally reached a deep Zen state, dig into the engine.

I'd start by checking the ignition timing, since the backfiring through the carbs sounds like a timing problem to me. First do a static timing, making sure that the rubbing block of the points is on the leading side of the cam (i.e., the counterclockwise sige). I suspect this is why people have trouble with static timing--they time it with the block on the wrong side of the cam.

I don't know what adjustments are available on Weber carbs--I've never used the aftermarket ones for LBCs. I'll leave that to others. I do agree, however, that the standard SU carbs work fine when set up right, which isn't all that hard.

By the way, I understand your disappointment with things that don't work and are a mess, but getting all this in order can be a fun project. Look at it as a future accomplishment, not a present disaster. (Well, OK, all LBCs are disasters, to some degree, but still lovable. Kinda like my kids....)
 
Check the firing order, this will cause it to backfire.
From the dist cap, #1 comes out of the cap at about 2:00
or the closest wire to the dipstick. From there the order is
1-3-4-2 COUNTER clockwise.
If the firing order is correct, check the plugs for black carbon. They can foul real easy especially with a weber that is a little off.
Clean or replace the plugs (NGK BP6ES) work well.
How old is the cap, rotor, and wires? they may look good but be in bad shape. If you don't know how old they are, a tune up with all new parts sure can't hurt.
A set of Chevy V8 plug wires will make 2 sets for a Sprite for the same money as a 4 cyl set of wires.
Try to avoid Lucas made in India for tune up parts as they are junk in the box and WILL fail in no time.
 
I know when I tried to time my Midget I got it 180 degrees out and got similiar results. I have a weber downdraft on a 1500 motor. Flames shot sometimes 2 feet into the air out of that thing. Another thing to check is be sure you don't have any leaks around your intake. Too much air and it produces similiar results when you release the choke. I know these guys frown a lot on the weber carb but I have been happy with mine. I really like the set em and forget em part of it.
 
Sarastro said:
I'd start by checking the ignition timing, since the backfiring through the carbs sounds like a timing problem to me. (...)
Click to expand...

Absolutely. So I'd say;

1) check / set your timing, along with plugs / wires / rotor / distributor cap, if they haven't been done recently. If you don't know the state of the engine, setting the valve clearances and doing a compression check might be a good idea

2) check the output of your fuel pump; fix if problem found. I almost hesitate to mention it (since it's been the topic of some debate lately) but if the Weber has been put on with the old pump... it may be an overfuelling issue. The Webers need about 2 psi. If your fuel pump is putting out much more than 2psi, consider a low pressure regulator or a low-pressure fuel pump.

3) if you don't know the state of the carb, try a simple rebuild kit, which might take a day if you're like me and have (had) never rebuilt a carb before. Don't start considering a wholesale carb change until you've figured out what the problem is.

My two cents...

-D
 
I seriously doubt a problem with the Weber carb. Though I prefer SU for mine, the Weber really does give more power and adjustment is virtually non-existant once it is setup. If it were purchased from a retailer specifically for that engine, it should be already setup good enough for now. If it wasn't, but it has ever run good with that carb, then the setup is good enough for now.

Missing and backfiring at high speeds, rough idle. Sounds more like an ignition wire defective, not connected or arcing, distributor cap arcing internally. A vacuum leak is possible. Worst case could be a valve sticking, but doubtful. Fire doesn't normally come out because of the carb. It comes from combustion exiting the cylinder and entering the inlet manifold.

Check the compression!! This will tell you if a valve is sticking or burnt.
Check the spark plugs!! This will tell you what is happening inside the cylinders.
Clean the ignition wires and cap internally. Soap and water work very well, but dry it THOROUGHLY. Replace if doubtful.

And Tony, What exactly do you mean by a carb being "out of time"? I've never heard of this.

And yes I will slam you a bit. Look at the Vizard book* and compare Weber performance with SU performance. There's no question.

* Tuning BL's A-series Engine

Just my dollar and a half worth. (inflation)

Donn
 
One more thing, After cleaning the distributor cap internally, check for "carbon trails". These are little lines "trails" of carbon left as a residue from a spark jumping from one pole to another. They are bad because they make it easier for the spark to jump again and thus leaving more carbon. The result is a spark in the wrong cylinder. And yes therefore combustion exiting into the inlet manifold.

If trails are found, there is no alternative than to get a new dist cap.
 
Rachael -

Where are you located in Cincinnati? I am up near West Chester. I have several DM-2 distributors ready to go, both points and negative ground Pertronix, as well as road tested caps, rotors and wires. We could swap out your distributor with a road tested unit, change the wires, confirm the timing, and at least eliminate the ignition from the equation.

I also have an HS2 set up just removed from a running 948. Another option to eliminate the carb issue.

I think I have a couple of rocker arm assemblies if that is a concern.

I just hauled in a '68 Sprite that I am stripping for the 1275 drivetrain, brakes and suspension. The body is pretty well gone, but all of the wiring is there that can be used as a guide.

Finally, if all else fails, I have a complete 948/smoothcase set up that I just pulled from my '59 Bugeye. It is very roadworthy with good compression in all four. I am planning on doing a leakdown test on the engine within the next few days, but the engine ran well over the last two years. I just completed a 1275/5 speed swap, but there is nothing wrong with this original set up.

Send me a PM with your contact info. if you are interested in any of the above approaches.
 
Backfiring through the carburetor is most likely either incorrect timing (first choice) or improper valve adjustment that is allowing an intake valve to be partially open when the spark plug fires, allowing combustion gases to come backward through the intake manifold to the carburetor. Both are pretty easy to check and to fix. Recommend that you 1) check and set the timing to stock specifications and then 2)adjust all the valves. Also a good idea to make sure that the plug wires are in the proper order.

Remember that 90% of all carburetor problems are actually ignition-related!
 
OK, first of all I want to say thank you so very much for all the responses.

I was very frustrated with this little car, so much so I did not even close the bonnet when I left it on the side of the road and I cursed at it in person to it's face!

I printed out this list because I can see how this information is helpful for this instance but also in the future.

I really need to try to find some reading material on these engines/carbs and cars to understand more of what is going on here. It took me some time to figure out that the carb that I had was not a stock carb and that the funny little carbs that look like horns are what I should have had.

And in regards to carbs, no offense taken on the fact that my father had no idea how to keep those carbs in tune. He was probbly 18 0r 20 at the time he owned the car and did not have near the resources that we have now a days to learn. He kept it going which is what mattered. It was nice to see him look over my car and take it for a drive, it brought back many memories of when he and my mother (since divorced) had the Sprite. One thing I found incredibly stupid and funny was that my mom would put her friend in that back area where there would be a backseat if it had one and would drive all the way from Decatur, IL to Danville like that. My Dad also remembered the snow coming in through the top, it was his daily driver at that time!

Anyways not to get off subject, I responded to you John via PM, I truly appreciate the offer.

I am just floored at how time you guys spent to respond to me, it def. encourages me and I am ready to start trying these suggestions out. I will keep you updated.

Also in addition this car has already cut me up on my ring finger, a nice big slash from that sharp thing where the top attaches. So we are technically blood brothers now and I owe it to my BB to get him feeling better.

Rach
 
Rachel,

Have faith. We've all been through this with our LBC's. You've got a fabulous car there and someone did some performance improvements at least in their own mind. John's can give you some help and if all else fails Steve Miller at MG Automotive in Kettering can also help you out. Help is close by and also close via the web. We'll all help you get your car running again.

So have you given it a nice nickname yet? These things develop personalities of their own and we're here to help you solve the personality disorders your car currently exhibits.
 
Ditto here. Don't loose faith in a piece of mechanics. It is only doing what it was told to do by the previous owner. You can do better than that, but you just don't know how yet. Wait until the help comes and take it as a learning experience. I did exactly that, though it was many years ago now. When you get it running well you will find an extreem sense of accomplishment. This is what makes me like these cars, sometimes even more than driving them.
 
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