Hap - 175/70/13 or 185/70/13 for your Superlights?

[tdskip]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Only been two plus years since I bought them but it is finally time to get tires on them.

For fast road work, but not racing or autocrossing, would you and the guys recommend 175/70/13 or 185/70/13? They are going on a 1960 BE.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Trevor Jessie]

185/70 are too large.

175/70 will probably be fine, but still might look a bit tall.

 

[tdskip]

Is there an ideal size then Trevor?

Thanks!

 

[aeronca65t]

Sumitomo makes a nice looking 175-50-13 that will fit (had them on my old street Spridget and have the 14" version on my MGB right now). There're a little too hard for my tastes, but a great value. They also sell a 70 series in the same width and diameter.

You can see them ~HERE~ .

The low-profile, 50 series Sumis look great. Due to the shorter sidewall, they will make your speedo read high (I just "recalibrated" my speedo with a GPS and small pieces of tape with the correct values).

If you want to have a real, pure look, Hoosier makes the A70-13 Steet TD. Pricey, but wold be very "correct" on this car.

 

[Trevor Jessie]

There are many opinions (imagine that). There are some people that insist that the car candles best with original sized bias ply.

But I do believe you can get too much tire/rim (especially if they end up weighing significantly more than the stock ones). Can you have too much grip? Possibly, but then you need to figure out what to do to the car to rebalance the handling for the improved grip.

What rim width? If they are 5.5", then I think the 165/70's are ideal. If the rims are 6", then you will probably want to move up to 175 (but the 50's are too short and the 70's are too tall).

Depending on the offset, you may be able to go 185, but then you'll start seeing interference problems.

Again, search the archive's and you can get all sorts of different opinions.

 

[twas_brillig]

Well - at least you were smart enough to buy the rims and wait until getting tyres (I've got some 'brand new' pirellis from the 80s for our big Healey; found where I'd stored some 'brand new' tires for an old Sable, dating back to 1998; I've got to get the current 165/80R13 tires on the BE steel rims checked for date of manufacture 'cause they might be junk due to aging as well...

I've got a set of 5J13 rims, two with 175/7R13 Kumho tires and one with a Toyo tire that I'm test fitting on our 'running' yellow 1960 BE. Heat's on in the garage and I'm planning on going out for a couple of hours later to do some measuring for clearance and fit; these wider rims will be installed later on our silver 'project' BE; I've also got at least one Michelin X tire from the 60s on a rim, and will do some measuring for it, and put a table together for this thread as well as any other recent tire/tyre threads.

Doug

 

[twas_brillig]

I've done a bunch of weighing and measuring over the last couple of days, and here's the summary: read through to the end if you're having trouble sleeping.

Doug

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We own two Bugeyes: a yellow one running on 155/80R13 tires, and a silver painted project BE that will have 175/70R13 tires on 5J 13 rims that have a 5 inch offset (ie the distance from the inside face of the mounting flange to the inside edge of the rim is 5 inches). The wheels are generic alloy; I bought them out of the UK but have no idea who made them..

I tried the wide rims and 175 tires on the yellow BE, and ran into interference problems at the front on the passenger side with the tire hitting the body frame on hard right turns. I did not have the nose piece on for any of this checking. On the drivers side, a hard left turn left approximately 3/8 inch of clearance to the body frame; with 5/16 inch spacers on the passenger side, there was no longer rubbing but there was still zero clearance. I’ll want to get the frame/alignment checked out in the spring (the snow is a wee bit deep right now), and have my fingers crossed that the silver BE (it will be getting front discs and rear brake upgrade) won’t have that problem

I would suggest that if you’re considering a wider tire and/or rim than the above 5 inch/175/70 combination, you should try to borrow the exact combination and check for clearance.

I took a bunch of measurements; hopefully the listing below will make sense. I’ve identified which car I was installing and measuring with by their colour (yellow; silver).

Bottomline: this combination (the 175/70R13 tires) gives nearly 2 inches wider contact area than the original 1960 era tyres, just tucks nicely inside the body work at the rear, and appears to have adequate lateral clearance at the rear. The weight of the original tyres and steel rims matches the weight of the wide alloy and modern radial tire.

**********************************************

Tread widths: the ancient Dunlop has a surface contact width of about 3 ¼ to 3 ½ inches
The Kumho has a surface contact width of about 5 inches (4 ½ to 5 inches)

**********************************************

Ancient wheels/tires (Silver) BE (we bought this car in 1971 and it’s been stored ever since, so I’m assuming the tires are from the 1960s. If anyone is really worried about concours: the Dunlop Gold Seal doesn’t appear to have any cracks in the sidewalls or tread (cursory glance) and still has a bit of the original casting nubs showing. The Michelin makes a billiard ball look like it’s suitable for driving in the wet).

Tire Size and Brand: Driver’s Side rear: Michelin 5.20 13 X radial; bald
Passenger side rear: Dunlop Gold Seal 5.20-13 Bias Ply; excellent tread

Stock Rim: (nothing stamped; I’ll take an empty rim into a shop and ask them to measure at some point)
Overall width (outside of steel to outside of steel): 4 15/32 inches
Backspace (measured from edge of rim to mounting face of centre section): 3 5/16 inches
Weight: 5 ½ pounds (all weights are approximate, using a basic bathroom scale)

Rim and Tire (Michelin):
Maximum overall width (rubber to rubber) 5 ¼ inches
Backspace (rubber to mounting face of centre section) 3 27/32 inches
Measured circumference of tire: 71 ½ inches
Weight: 10 ½ pounds

Rim and Tire (Dunlop):
Maximum overall width (rubber to rubber) 5 1/2 inches
Backspace (rubber to mounting face of centre section) 3 7/8 inches
Measured circumference of tire: 72 ¼ inches
Weight: 11 pounds

Track (rear):
Outside width, sidewall rubber to sidewall rubber, of rear wheels: 50 5/8 inches
Clearance (from outside of rubber to outside of bodywork): Left: 1 17/32 inch Michelin
(this shows how much the tire is inset under the body) Right: 1 21/32 inch Dunlop

****************************************************

Existing wheels/tires (Yellow ) BE:
Tire Size: 155/80R13
Brand: Kumho 795 Touring A/S
Age: need to check to see if they’re safe
Wheels: stock BE rims; see above for dimensions

Rim and Tire:
Maximum overall width (outside of rubber to outside of rubber): 5 27/32”
Backspace (rubber to mounting face of centre section): 4”
Measured circumference of tire: 71 ¼ inches
Weight: 11 ½ pounds

Track (rear):
Clearance (from outside of rubber to outside of bodywork): Left: 1 7/16 inches
Right: 1 1/16 inches

*****************************************************

New wheels/tires (Yellow) BE:
Tire size: 175/70R13
Brand: Kumho 795 Touring A/S
Toyo Eclipse (I bought two Kumho and 1 Toyo, to check best fit and appearance; will probably take the Toyo back and save a few bucks)
Age: 2009 (?)

Wide Rim: 5Jx13
Overall width (outside of alloy to outside of allowy): 6”
Backspace (measured from edge of rim on inside to mounting face of centre section): 3 ¾”

Rim and Tire: Kumho 795 Touring A/S
Maximum overall width (rubber to rubber): 6 31/32”
Backspace (rubber to mounting face of centre section) 4 7/32”
Measured circumference of tire: 72 inches
Weight: 11 ¾ pounds (approx – bathroom scale)

Rim and Tire: Toyo Eclipse
Maximum overall width (rubber to rubber): 6 31/32 inches
Backspace (rubber to mounting face of centre section) _4 ¼ inches
Measured circumference of tire: 71 3/4 inches
Weight: 12 pounds (approx – bathroom scale)

Track (rear): Kumho
Outside width, rubber to rubber, of rear wheels: 51 1/8”
Inside width, rubber to rubber, of rear wheels: 38 ½ (approx)
Clearance (approximate) to body tub on inside, drivers side: approx 1inch
passenger side: approx 1 ¼ inch
Clearance (from outside of rubber to outside of bodywork): left: ½ inch
Right: 3/32 inch
(Note that the above figures don’t add up: 38 ½” +6 31/32 + 6 31/32 should equal 51 1/8” not 52 3/8”)

**************************************************

Front Clearance (yellow BE; drum brakes):
With the Toyo Eclipse on the driver’s side, there’s approximately 3/16 inch clearance to the body on a hard left turn; with 5/16 inches of spacers on the passenger side lug nuts, there is zero clearance to the body on a hard right turn. No idea why.

******************************************************************************************************

Published Data:
1 – Stapleton (The MG Midget A-H Sprite High-Performance Manual) advises “With the Sprite/Midget, the realistic limit on backspace is 3.70in (94 mm)”

 

[regularman]

Sumitomo makes a nice looking 175-50-13 that will fit (had them on my old street Spridget and have the 14" version on my MGB right now). There're a little too hard for my tastes, but a great value. They also sell a 70 series in the same width and diameter.

You can see them ~HERE~ .

The low-profile, 50 series Sumis look great. Due to the shorter sidewall, they will make your speedo read high (I just "recalibrated" my speedo with a GPS and small pieces of tape with the correct values).

If you want to have a real, pure look, Hoosier makes the A70-13 Steet TD. Pricey, but wold be very "correct" on this car.

Hey man, I didn't know they made these. Not spridget related but I been looking for something this low. Wife's car is a Ford Festiva. 12 inch tires are very hard to find and good ones are not available in the USA. The cheapos that I can get only last 10-15K at the most and go out of balance after about 4k or so. I ended up getting some 13 inch Honda wheels and some spacers to make them fit, but the original tires were 165/70/12. I got someone looking for some 165/65/13s for me of a good brand at a reasonable price at a tire store, but if he don't come through, that size might be an alternative. I want to keep the speedo close on that car, or wife will get more tickets.

 

[tdskip]

Thanks for all the info guys, and Doug I'm sure it wasn't exactly tee-shirt weather in the garage so a special thanks for all the research. Very helpful.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

On the Superlite 13x5.5 175/70/13 0n square rear arch cars, 185/70/13 on RWA cars, there are other sizes that work, but this is what most folks do. They have a 4" backspacing, sometime you have to run a small amount of spacer in the front to clear the steering arm, but not on all cars.


That 175/50/13, probably would look goofy on a street Spridget leaving huge gaps at the wheel opening, there's a site on the net called mintylamb, you can use their tire0o-rama to compares different sizes of tire, cool site.

If you have any questions, give me a shout, I done this stuff about a kazillion times Beaing in the wheel (and used to tire ) business for two decades.

 

[tdskip]

Anyone have pictures of the Superlite 13x5.5 with 170/70/13 or 185/70/13 on the car?

Would the 170/70/13 all the car to move/slide around a bit more? I''m thinking that part of what makes these car so much fun a low speeds is that their limits are lower than other cars, so I'm personally not trying to turn her into a track or autocross focused car.

Any comments/ideas?

Thanks folks!

 

[regularman]

I don't know what the width of a stock wheel is compared ti minilites but here is 175/70s on my stock wheels. It handles a little better than the 165/80s that were on it when I got it.

You can see that there is very little room between the tire and the spring on the rear but it has never rubbed, nor on the square arch either. Even if the wheel is a bit wider the tire will be the same width out on the edges.

 

[regularman]

By the way 175/70/13 is no longer made by firehawk. My nephew works for Firestone and I got him scouring the country for two of them to replace my two front ones that got eat up due to the tow in getting way out. The back ones still look like new. I like them because they have a nice square edge like the old bias ply tires used to have.

 

[tdskip]

Thanks Kim!

 

[tdskip]

Oh man - I am churning over this decision. LOL. From doing some searches looks like I'm far from the only person to agonize over making a decision on tires.

If I want to minimize the chance of rubbing and keep to a only slightly more aggressive than stock look it appears that the 165/70/13 (thanks Trevor) would work with the 13 x 5.5 Superlites I bought from Hap. Less "meat" on the road, but less chance of rubbing. Yes/no?

Thanks for the patience!

 

[Hap Waldrop]

I think Kim is a good judge on a SWA car, we drove in the mountains together, and if he is not rubbing with 175s, thats a good sign.

 

[Jim_Gruber]

And again Kim is running Rostyles which I believe are only 13 x 5" wide rims not 13.5" Again Offsets are unknown with Superlites as compared to Rostyles. A case of YMMV for sure.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Offset on the Superlite 13x5.5 is +9mm, which is a backspacing of 4". I rely on the follow up of my customers, but we've probably sold a couple hundred sets of these, and the tire size recomendations I gave above are acurate, 175/70/13 for the SWA cars anbd 185/70/13 for the RWA cars. Some, by no means not all all Midget have needed a samll amount of wheels spacer on the front. I've still got a couple sets of 13x5.5 in Charcoal grey I'm discounted before the new VTO line of wheels get here in the 13x5.5, (we're making our own wheels now) if anyone is inerested, call me.

 

[regularman]

One thing you could try is finding a couple used up tires that still hold air and put them on the wheels and see how they act before you buy tires. I have 4 185/70/13 and two of them might even pass for legal that I am getting rid of but you are on the other side of the country from me.

 

[tdskip]

Thanks guys - and good luck with the new wheels Hap!

Are you going to post some pictures? Hint, hint, hint...