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Getting Dizzy!?!

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Bret

Bret

Yoda
Offline
Well it looks like my Dizzy is going south on me.

In an attempt to get my 78B ready for it’s smog test, I found that I couldn’t get my timing to stay put. A few years ago I installed the Ignitor and everything seemed to be right with the world until I replaced the rotor cap and the plugs this morning. At first she wouldn’t start at all until I checked & aligned the dizzies timing location to TDC. Once I got her to start I set the timing but no matter how many times I checked & set it - it would hunt +/- and even cut out completely driving down the road.

Checking the distributor it looks ok but seems to have a lot of play. So no matter how I look at it - I’m probably going to have this fixed or replaced it before I take her in for the smog test (automatic failure!). Now I need to start evaluate my options.

Yes I know that some of you might say why not go with old points dizzy? Well the problem is (found this out the hard way) Kalifornia requires Electronic Ignition for the smog equipped MG’s like mine.

Anyway I’m looking into one of the following:
Mallory Duel Point Distributor $255 (Moss) $219 (VB sale) with the Petronix Ingitor II $125 (Moss) This should meet California emissions standards.
Mallory Unlite Electronics Dizzy ~$500 (Moss) ~$450 (VB sale)
DUI one peace ignition system (built in coil) $399

Any other options?

Thanks in advance,
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

Bret
 
Hi Bret,

You'd save a ton of money if you moved to Florida! After all, that is one option! On the serious side, I would agree with Jeff. It might be a good idea to remove the timing chain cover for a close inspection of the chain, gears, and tensioner. Another idea is to remove and inspect the distributor gear and shaft.
 
Bret, this does not sound like instant Dizzy failure to me, it sounds like one or all those parts you just installed are the source of your problem.Why not put everthing back like it was and see if the engine will run ok. Then take one item out at a time, change in the same new part- do not attempt to retune to accomodate any one of the new parts,either they are going to work or they are not.Now, one of the weak spots in these ignition systems is the rotor if it says Lucas thats no insurance its good if it says nothing thats worse.Look at the rotor inside and on the bottom if you see whitish powdery deposits[not always visible] on it, it is breaking down internally.Also look at the Magnet cam for the pertronics and make sure that the bottom seal is secure.This may not get it smogged but it should put you on the right track I hope.--FWIW---Keoke
Jeff & Ricks comments are also valid.
 
Bret, I strongly advise going with Keoke. As a long time A&E, (Airforce) under the same circumstances you describe, we ALWAYS put the engine back in previous condition to see if it still ran like it did before the parts change. It almost always did. Then swapping out one good part for an old one at a time would usually find the problem.

Guinn
 
[ QUOTE ]
everything seemed to be right with the world until I replaced the rotor cap and the plugs this morning. At first she wouldn’t start at all until I checked & aligned the dizzies timing location to TDC. Once I got her to start I set the timing but no matter how many times I checked & set it - it would hunt +/- and even cut out completely driving down the road.
Bret

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi Bret,
I think others have already said this in so many words. If it truly ran ok until the above changes, then something happened when you replaced one of the above parts. I can't imagine why changing the mentioned parts would require a timing change, the first clue. You might have changed something else also, maybe unknown. Possibly a defective or wrong part.

Put the old parts back in & see what happens. If it still runs bad you inadvertantly did something else that isn't mentioned. If it runs ok, you can put the "new" parts back in, one at a time, & see what happens.
D
 
Thanks for the suggestions and support everyone. But I figured it out.

But, not that the internet would show it – but i must admit that my face is bright <font color="red"> RED </font> with embarrassment right now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I went back over “everything” I’d touched today. In fact reinstalling each old part one at a time. Anyway what I discovered was that when I replaced the cap & rotor I’d inadvertently “nudged” the Pertonix Ignitor’s magnet & spacer on the distributor’s shaft.

Kudos to Keoke & Guinn. You guys win the door prize. Had I not been so persistent and kept on working on it I’m sure your advice would have pointed me in the right direction when I revisited the problem tomorrow.

From the looks of it, when I went to reseat the new rotor – it never seated properly. While it seemed to be correct – in actuality the spring loaded (coil) center electrode of the distributor cap was in fact the only thing holding the rotor in place.

So what would happen is that the magnet & rotor would start to float on the shaft as the revs increased. Kind’a similar to what happens when water (coolant) gets into your dizzy. If you’ve ever had a heater valve that leaks onto you distributor then you know how unnerving it is to have the engine cut out at speed.

Not finding any water – needless to say I was a little baffled & miffed. Until the first clue of what the real problem was, came when I returned the engine to #1 TDC and noticed that the rotor was in an ever so slightly “different” orientation than the last time I checked TDC. That’s the point I rechecked to make sure that the Pertonix magnet was seated properly – it wasn’t.

Like I said I feel really stupid right now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Reseated the magnet & spacer correctly and everything is fine. Also, I really didn’t think it had anything to do with the engine internals as it seemed to be fine “before” I started to prep my car for the emissions testing.

Oh well – I still think I’m going to replace the tired old dizzy one of these days.

Ya know what? I still feel a little Dizzy.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
Bret
 
I was a B29 crew chief over in Okinawa for a time. Changed mags on #2 because of too much mag drop and the engine ran fine. Buttoned everything up and signed the job off. Crew tried to go on mission but NUMBER TWO MISSED AND SPUTTERED!
Checked that mag out again, reset the points, all OK. Buttoned it up again and the same thing happened! Did this three times before we found an extra long screw holding the mag cap on was also grounding the mag when we put things back. We must have had some Lucas parts and didn't know it!

Guinn
 
Wow cool Story Guinn,

I have a few similar stories from my days working on Hueys in the Marine Corps as a Crewcheif.

Anyway kind of like the Force is with Yoda – the Prince of Darkness is strong with my 78B. But however much I might wish to pass the blame, I really can’t blame Lord Lucas for this little “self-induced” bug. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif

Proof positive that you can’t rush things with a Redneck Scotsmen!

Deus Juvat – Because sometimes no one else will.
 
HI Dave,Here is what we have found recently that will change timing. There are some after market rotors that have the brass arm skewed relative to others.consequently, when you put one in, the previously set timing will change.---FWIW---Keoke
 
[ QUOTE ]
HI Dave,Here is what we have found recently that will change timing. There are some after market rotors that have the brass arm skewed relative to others.consequently, when you put one in, the previously set timing will change.---FWIW---Keoke

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi again,
To my limited knowledge, the HV rotor (brass arm) position has nothing to do with controlling timing. Timing is determined by the rotating cam, reluctor, magnet, take your choice, shaft position. The top brass contact just goes along for the ride & does not need to be perfectly lined up & seldom is. If it (the rotor contact) was too far out of line with the cap contact, changing the shaft position to correct it would throw the timing off. This is why the brass rotor contact is relatively long. To permit timing variations without running out of brass positioned near the cap contact. When you consider that during centrifugal advance, the entire cam & top rotor can move up to 20 degrees in relation to the cap contacts it can be no other way. Am I missing something?
D
 
HI Bret, glad you got it sorted out.You should go to the Spridgets Forum and check out the upgraded distributors they are using,there may also be an electronic one for your car ask them if there is.---FWIW---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 
Dave, I can only tell you what we have experienced if you choose not to belive so be it.-Regards Keoke
 
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