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Fuel Pump Upgrade on 1500

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RobSelina

RobSelina

Jedi Warrior
Offline
Okay, my fuel pump clunked out today...it may be a vapor lock issue, but I'm not sure. The car was not running hot, it was sitting at 160-180 and the carb started to get fuel starved.
I turned around and it died about 4 miles from my house. There's an inline fuel filter just before the carb, and it was empty. I couldn't get fuel to go into the filter...I'm assuming I have a problem with the pump.

Anyway, I'd like to remove the stock mechanical pump, make a cover, and then mount an electric pump down by the tank. I'd love to get some advice on a pump/regulator/filter setup from someone who's done the upgrade.

Thanks!
 
Rob, before you write off the pump, make sure the blockage isn't before the pump, as in a blocked filter sock in the tank. If you have fuel to the pump, though, that more than likely isn't the problem.
There are several pumps available to choose from, such as Facet, Holley, SU, etc, The Facet pumps work well, but can be noisy. I've got a Facet on one car, an SU on another, and a Carter on still another. Holley makes an adjustable low pressure fuel pressure regulator that is about the best out there. It has one inlet, and two outlets, so you have an extra port available to run a gauge if you want. They have a positive lock for the pressure setting, so creep isn't a problem like the junk dial type regulators. They come with mounting hardware, and don't take up much space.
Use any in-line type filter, and install it between the pump and the regulator.
Hope this has answered your questions.
Jeff
 
I personally like to keep mechanical pumps when they are original... though I carry a simple electric in case of a failure. They're usually pretty trouble free but they're not immortal.

Easy to open up and diagnose -- damaged diaphram, dropped check valve and dislodged rocker shaft are likely failures.

The 'fuel starved' then 'died' is what you would experience if the pump stopped pumping as you can drive aways on the fuel left in the bowls.
 
just my 2 cents - depending on how proud you are of your engine bay - couldn't you just leave that pump in there and attach an electrical to the line - gas would just pump through there if i'm correct (i think so)

if blocking off - i think the early A series engine used the same fuel pump (different lever) and when the switched to electronic they made a blocking plate - it should be available from moss/vb
 
[ QUOTE ]
just my 2 cents - depending on how proud you are of your engine bay - couldn't you just leave that pump in there and attach an electrical to the line - gas would just pump through there if i'm correct (i think so)


[/ QUOTE ]

Typically mechanical pumps like this are lubricated by what they pump, I think this pump is the same way. In other words, if I left it there w/o fuel lines attached, I think it would seize and do 'bad stuff'.

I'm happy to ditch a couple of ounces anyway, weight reduction is turning into a fun little side project /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I personally like to keep mechanical pumps when they are original... though I carry a simple electric in case of a failure. They're usually pretty trouble free but they're not immortal.

Easy to open up and diagnose -- damaged diaphram, dropped check valve and dislodged rocker shaft are likely failures.

The 'fuel starved' then 'died' is what you would experience if the pump stopped pumping as you can drive aways on the fuel left in the bowls.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure how familar you are with the 1500 fuel pumps, but they're regarded as being troublesome since they're so far from the tank. The pump is also so close to the engine, that at high temperatures, you'll get vaporization in the line before the pump, and it will cease to function.

Also, just a clarification, it was more of a gradual failure. My wife and I were driving out to Magdalena. It's a scenic drive, about 30-40 miles each way. About 6 miles out of town, it would start to die if I hit the gas too hard (we were climbing up hill at about 65). If I let off the gas it could keep up. We turned around and drove the 6 miles back to town with the engine cutting in and out starving for fuel. As I got into town, it started to behave fine in stop and go low speed traffic, then as I approached the frontage road, about 4 miles from home still, she just stalled and had enough. Fuel bowl was empty, you could pump the pedal, crank the engine, etc, no fuel in bowl.

Also, just an FYI incase it might be contributing somehow - I ditched the heater and emissions system on Friday. It drove great on Friday and Saturday morning, then died Saturday evening. We hooked up the line that goes from the tank to the charcoal canister as a return line, I think this is propper but I mention it incase I'm causing weird pressure issues. All vac lines on the carb are plugged off, even the crank case vent is not being used anymore (I'm just venting to the air).
 
Jeff - I'll check the fuel lines this morning and see if they're flowing. Frankly I hope it's the pump and not the filter sock since I really don't want to have to drop the tank /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 
Rob, I hope it's the pump, too. If it does turn out to be a blockage in the line, you can carefully blow air back through the fuel line into the tank, and many times this will clean the sock good enough to work.
From the symptoms you describe, it sounds like pump failure to me.
Jeff
 
[ QUOTE ]
Rob, I hope it's the pump, too. If it does turn out to be a blockage in the line, you can carefully blow air back through the fuel line into the tank, and many times this will clean the sock good enough to work.
From the symptoms you describe, it sounds like pump failure to me.
Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff - Just pulled the fuel line into the pump and it had fuel in it. So it does appear to be the pump....
 
Jeff - would this be the holley fuel pressure regulator you speak of:

https://store.summitracing.com/partdetail...+fuel+regulator

Or is this it:

https://store.summitracing.com/partdetail...+fuel+regulator

What's an acceptable pressure for a ZS carb? What about an SU HS4? I'm currently running the stock ZS, and it's actually performing very well now w/o the emissions system, but I do intend to go to a single HS4 next year, so I'd like this fuel system to accomodate both.

This seems like total overkill for a pump:

https://store.summitracing.com/partdetail...ctric+fuel+pump

Since i only need about 10 GPH by my calcs (and that's shooting way high) Overkill is good though I guess /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Would this carter be more appropriate? It's a little cheaper, lower GPH...is this the one you were refering to? Seems that it offers built in pressure regulation too...

https://store.summitracing.com/partdetail...ctric+fuel+pump

Thanks again for your help!
 
Rob, the correct regulator is the low pressure Holley, P/N 12-804. Correct fuel pressure for both the HS4 and the ZS run between 1 1/2 and 3 PSI.
The fuel pumps listed are both mega overkill. I get mine from the local NAPA dealer, but I'm sure Checker, or Pep Boys have something suitable. The Carter I have on the California car came from the local, small town parts store. 10 or 12 GPH isn't much fuel, so there is no need to go to a monster pump. I run a small Facet pump on one of the racers and it works just fine.
Good luck,
Jeff
 
Rob, that's a Facet pump marketed under the NAPA name. It's a good pump, and you probably won't really need the regulator with it, but it never hurts to install one. I keep one of those pumps as my emergency spare.
Jeff
 
The 12-804 ,1 to 4 pds is the correct regulator. The 1500 runs 2.5 to 3.5. Wish i had seen your link, just ordered a 12-804 for 38 bucks! I need to get down to 1 pd for the quad keihin set up.
 
zott- they charge an $8.95 handling fee with "free" shipping if it makes you feel any better, so you probably didn't come out much different. I picked up a few other bits and pieces for the Jeep while I was at it to make it worth my while....

Quick update: got the old fuel pump out and made a plate to cover the hole with some scrap 14 gauge I had lying around. I re-routed the fuel lines under the hood and mounted the fuel pump out back, near the tank. Tomorrow I need to plug the hoses into the pump and run power to it, should be on the road again on Wednesday!
 
Rob, it sounds as though you are well on your way to being mobile again.
Keep an eye on your block off plate for leaks, as 14 Ga. may be a tad thin to seal well.
When you run the power to the pump, it wouldn't hurt to fuse it as long as you're stringing wire.
Jeff
 
Ditto what Jeff said. I'm running a blanking plate made from 3/16" aluminum.
 
[ QUOTE ]
just my 2 cents - depending on how proud you are of your engine bay - couldn't you just leave that pump in there and attach an electrical to the line - gas would just pump through there if i'm correct (i think so)[ QUOTE ]


That's what the previous owner of my Spit had done with my car. I rebuilt the fuel pump and did away with the electric pump. It has been fine for several years now. I had an original pump and I don't think the kits are availble any more.
 
I hate to think I had the car down for 3 months because of this little issue but I finally got her back on the road again today. (the hail storm we had the week after the fuel pump died really de-motivated me since it tore the rag top and did some minor body damage)

Anyway, The facet pump is a little noisy but it works fine as far as I can tell. I didn't run the holley fuel pressure regulator and haven't experienced any problems. I ran the positive lead from the fuse box near the fire wall and just grounded it using the hardware that attached it to the body (my car is negative ground).

It felt SOOO good to take the car out for a spin today. She's hesitating a little when I hit the gas but it was doing that before the swap so I think it's just an issue with the ZS. Anyway, I hadn't realized how much I missed my car and missed driving until I pulled out the driveway. Then it all came back to me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
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