fuel pump problems

[John Sims]

In getting ready for spring, I chargd my batters on my BN6 and installed a trickle charger which I installed incorrectly as my batters were completely recharged. Upon recharging, I can crank the engine but the click of the fuel pump no longer is present. My questions are:

1. Did I fry the fuel pump contacts?
2. Assuming I did, I will probably buy a replacement and rebuild the existing one for a spare.
3. It appears that I have to dismount the pump from the inside of the cockpit but the upholstery is glued on. I remember reading somewhere that it is supposed to be attached with snaps or is that just the part over the tranny cover?

Not too much of a hurry - we are expecting another 6-8 inches of snow tonight in Glorious New Jersey.
Thanks all.

 

[Pete Haburt]

John;
If yours is indeed an early fuel pump that did not have a diode or capacitor, the polarity reversal should not have damaged anything. It is possible that the points just arced and stuck. It is also possible that someone added a diode, in which case it is probably fried. Have you tried tapping the bulkhead with your fist to see if the pump will click a few times? It may.
In any case, I would replace the points at the minimum, but add a capacitor or diodes if you can to reduce arcing. My old pump without capacitor used to stick every 1500 miles before replacing it with a SU electronic unit from Burlen Fuel systems. I replaced the points and added a capacitor to my old one.. just in case.
Pete H.
61 BT7

 

[Pete Haburt]

PS;
The rear seat pan can be removed by removing the four screws at the edges. The seal may be stuck. At some point on later cars, the seat pans had studs going thru the seat deck which had to be removed from underneath. You can also get at the pump fairly easily if your jack up the left rear, put on jackstand, and remove the wheel.
Pete H

 

[John Sims]

The car is a BN6 - no rear seat pan.

 

[Michael Oritt]

Originally posted by John Sims:
It appears that I have to dismount the pump from the inside of the cockpit but the upholstery is glued on. I remember reading somewhere that it is supposed to be attached with snaps or is that just the part over the tranny cover?

John--

The armacord should be glued on. The first time I removed the pump I reglued the armacord in place and then passed the mounting bolts through it so that I would not have to again have to unglue/reglue.

 

[Dave Russell]

John,
I agree with pete on the fuel pump. I also did exactly the same thing as Michael with the fuel pump mount.
Here is a good tech article on the SU pump;
https://www.mgcars.org.uk/electrical/body_pump.html

A very interesting situation. You have converted the car from positive ground to negative ground. The only problem is that the battery terminals are now incorrectly marked. If you have started the car & the generator is charging, fine. If you haven't started it, you may want to polarize the generator by briefly touching a wire from the field (small) terminal on the generator, to the hot battery terminal on the starter solenoid. There is a possibility of damaging the generator control box (regulator) if the generator & car polarities get mixed up.

What will you do now? If you leave the battery reverse charged it may not last too long. You might be able to completely discharge the battery & recharge it the correct way. Either way, the battery will probably not last long.

Whichever way you go, make sure that the fuel pump & generator polarity match the selected battery set up.

I have always had this situation in the back of my mind but this is a first for me. Keep us informed. This should be interesting.
D

 

[Johnny]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by John Sims:
3. It appears that I have to dismount the pump from the inside of the cockpit but the upholstery is glued on. I remember reading somewhere that it is supposed to be attached with snaps or is that just the part over the tranny cover?
Thanks all.<hr></blockquote>
John, the bolts are passed from inside (with the armachord glued on) however, you should be able to remove the fuelpump from the car, without removing the bracket. As was mentioned, jack up the car, remove the wheel.

 

[Michael Oritt]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Dave Russell:

A very interesting situation. You have converted the car from positive ground to negative ground. The only problem is that the battery terminals are now incorrectly marked.

What will you do now? If you leave the battery reverse charged it may not last too long. You might be able to completely discharge the battery & recharge it the correct way. Either way, the battery will probably not last long.

I have always had this situation in the back of my mind but this is a first for me. Keep us informed. This should be interesting.
D[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Dave--

Are you saying that it is possible to reverse the polarity of the battery itself by discharging it and then charging with the charger attached backwards? I frankly have never heard of this and if this is what you mean then it is certainly an interseting approach as it would allow a car to have a "correct appearance". Or am I misunderstanding something....

 

[John Sims]

This is becoming an intresting string. To muddy it up some more, some of you know that my BN6 is a mutt - engine from a tri-carb converted to twin HD6 and now I find that the fuel pump is a late BJ8 model "AUF301" So the reason I do not hear the loveable clicking is that I probably fried the diode. Good for me as they are a lot cheaper than the pumps that should be on my car. I'll lurk for a while as you heavyweights duke it out on the polarity thing. I am getting an education on one of my weaker points -- electrical systems.

 

[Dave Russell]

Michael,
Yes - It is possible to reverse charge a battery, provided that it is completely discharged first. The battery won't work as well & will have short life. Not a good solution.

John,
The only way to permanently undo the damage is to replace the batteries & the fuel pump diode. You might possibly be able to completely discharge the battery & recharge with the correct polarity but I think you would have poor results. The diodes are available from Moss as #377-135, positive ground & #377-145, negative ground.

At this point you need to make the decision on whether to retain the positive ground or convert to negative ground.

Also, if you have run the car in the reversed condition, you should flash the generator field to assure correct polarity of the generator. Here is a pretty good primer on the charging system. It is for a Mini, but they are pretty much the same as your Healey.
https://www.coopermania.it/0646-05A.pdf
I already gave a good fuel pump reference above.

Johnny,
I have a newer SU pump which is mounted directly to the bulkhead, no bracket. The original style pump didn't have enough capacity. I suspect that John may have the same mount.
D

[ 03-19-2004: Message edited by: Dave Russell ]</p>

 

[Michael Oritt]

Originally posted by Dave Russell:
[QB]Michael,
Yes - It is possible to reverse charge a battery, provided that it is completely discharged first. The battery won't work as well & will have short life. Not a good solution.

Dave--

So then someone could convert their car to negative ground and do the other points necessary to same, discharge the battery, reverse-charge it and hook it up as with positive ground and fool the Concours judges!!! I love it....

 

[Dave Russell]

Michael

Yes - I guess so. By short life I mean a matter of days & you can only do it once.
D

"So then someone could convert their car to negative ground and do the other points necessary to same, discharge the battery, reverse-charge it and hook it up as with positive ground and fool the Concours judges!!! I love it...."

 

[aeronca65t]

This "polarity" discussion reminds me of something that happened to a neighbor many years ago.
He was in the military and had brought his Rambler wagon to Germany with him. When the Rambler was shipped back, the battery was removed (for safety) and then accidentally reinstalled *backwards* (positive ground).
The car worked fine, but his (transitorized) radio was dead. Eventualy he figured it out when he tried to fix the radio a year later!
Note: The car had a generator....this wouldn't work with an alternator.