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Fuel Pump...My B is Messing With Me

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JoshP

Jedi Trainee
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I think my '77 B is messing with me.

I finished up the biggest part of the cleanup effort in the interior, including removing mildew stains on the underside of the top, the wheel and the shifter boot. I moved the car out of the garage after reinstalling the battery; I wanted to hear the B sing for me.

Key on, no telltale ticking of fuel pump and no fuel at the filter. I gave the pump a good whack or three and tried again. I get a few intermittent sounding ticks, not nearly the rhythmic sound I'm used to getting at first startup. Crank, no joy, no fuel in filter still yet. By this time, it was getting dark so I hung it up for the evening and pushed it back to the garage. Disconnected the battery as usual.

I got out a can and my test light to do a bit more testing...lo and behold, the fuel filter is now full of fuel. I didn't try the key again, but will do so tomorrow. Is my car messing with me?
 
You might want to clean up the points in the fuel pump and check the conections. Since it's accessable from the trunk it's super easy to do.
 
JoshP said:
I think my '77 B is messing with me.

I finished up the biggest part of the cleanup effort in the interior, including removing mildew stains on the underside of the top, the wheel and the shifter boot. I moved the car out of the garage after reinstalling the battery; I wanted to hear the B sing for me.

Key on, no telltale ticking of fuel pump and no fuel at the filter. I gave the pump a good whack or three and tried again. I get a few intermittent sounding ticks, not nearly the rhythmic sound I'm used to getting at first startup. Crank, no joy, no fuel in filter still yet. By this time, it was getting dark so I hung it up for the evening and pushed it back to the garage. <span style="font-weight: bold">Disconnected the battery as usual.</span>

I got out a can and my test light to do a bit more testing...lo and behold, the fuel filter is now full of fuel. I didn't try the key again, but will do so tomorrow. Is my car messing with me?
Click to expand...

Wots dis 'bout then Guvnor?
 
@Quicksilver - That's what I'm wondering...how the filter filled up after the fact. I disconnect my battery b/c of a key-off draw that will kill the battery out in just a few days.
 
So, I did a bit of work on the pump today and cleaned up the points, brought them up nice and shiny with a piece of emery board. I also cleaned up the ground connection in the trunk. Alas, no go on that front, not even as much as a peep from the pump. No go on the traditional fuel pump smacking.

What's odd too...the fuel that was once in the filter is now gone. Hmmmm...time to break out the test light, me thinks.
 
Josh - If you did not fold the pedestal on the pump back, you probably did not get the lower contacts cleaned very well as they are difficult to get at with the pedestal in place. The best way to get the points cleaned is to remove the upper points by loosening the screw at the back end of the blade that the contacts are mounted on. Pull the blade with the contacts off and scrub the contacts on a fine sharpening stone or a piece of 400 grit sand paper on a flat sheet of steel or glass. To get the lower contacts cleaned, remove the two pedestal mounting screws and carefully fold the pedestal back, pivoting it around the pin that holds the tower toggle to the back legs of the pedestal. Once you have clear access to the lower contacts, clean them as above, except if you use 400 grit sand paper, wrap it around a narrow piece of steel or other flat rod. For more information on tracing down fuel problems, see the article, Fuel Delivery Troubleshooting guide in the SU Fuel Pump Articles section of my web site at: https://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/ Don't worry about the filter being full, empty or anywhere in between. If the fuel pump is running, fuel is getting to the carburetors regardless of how full the filter is (unless there is an air leak on the inlet side of the pump, in which case the pump will run continuously without stopping.
Cheers,
 
@Dave - I believe I did get the lower contacts cleaned, as there was one flat piece with a pair of contacts and another pair of contacts below the pedestal on a hinge pin that I cleaned up. I removed the two side screws under the cap and a single small screw to remove the condensor which allowed the pedestal to come forward on the hinge pin. From there, I was able to get to those contacts. I will definitely give your website articles a good hard read.

I'll start by disconnecting the line to the carb and see if I have operation, then work back from there.
 
Josh - "I removed the two side screws under the cap and a single small screw to remove the condensor which allowed the pedestal to come forward on the hinge pin."

You did the right thing. Without doing that, the lower contacts are nearly impossible to clean.
Cheers,
 
Josh,

It sounds like you might have an (some) obstruction in the fuel line that is taking time for the gas to get through. remove the filter and pump the gas into a container to check and see if you can blow it out. Even better, try some air back into the line with the pump unhooked.

Bruce
 
Update: Did a bit more testing today. I disconnected the fuel line to the carb and had no fuel flow, no sound from the pump. I connected up a test light to the terminal and ground on the pump body and had a light there. I'm thinking DOA pump, but I'm going to do some more diagnosis before I call it. I'm debating on whether to go ahead and pull the pump and bench test it or disconnect the inlet and outlet lines in sequence and test on the car.
 
Josh - The easiest way to test the pump is on the car. Start by disconnecting the inlet and outlet lines from the pump (hint: remove or at least loosen the fuel line from the fitting on the fuel tank before removing it from the inlet side of the pump so that it doesn't siphon the fuel out of the tank and down your arm, forming a big puddle where it runs off your elbow). With both lines removed from the pump, turn the ignition on and see if the pump runs. If it doesn't, then you need a new pump or have the existing pump rebuilt. If the pump does run, reconnect the inlet line to the pump (also reconnect the line or tighten it to the fuel tank fitting) and run a piece of flex hose from the outlet side of the pump to a quart jar and again turn on the ignition - the pump should fill the jar in less than a minute. If the pump doesn't run with the inlet line hooked up, or runs a bit and then stalls, or pumps very slowly, then you have a clog somewhere between the pickup in the fuel tank and the pump. If it pumps ok, then hook up the outlet line, disconnect the fuel line where it enters the carburetor and route it into the quart jar and turn the ignition on. Again, it should fill the jar in less than a minute if the pump doesn't pump, or if it pumps a few times and then quits, then you have a clog between the pump and the carburetors. I don't know at what year they installed the inertia fuel cutoff valve, but if your car has that installed, check that it hasn't been triggered.
Cheers,
 
The verdict is in: the fuel pump is deceased.

To sum up: with a test light, I get 12V to the fuel pump. I disconnected both the inlet and outlet fuel lines at the pump body and no sign of life from the pump. The points are fairly clean (not perfect, but clean).

Now, for the next million dollar question. For the most part, I believe that an original rebuilt/reconditioned part is better than a new reproduction part (NOS not withstanding), so I'd like to go with a rebuild of the current pump if at all possible. I'm not violently opposed to a new pump, if need be. Would I be better off to go back with a points based setup or convert over to solid state?

Thanks for all your help to get to this point! :laugh:
 
Josh - A points style pump will serve you fine as long as you drive your car on a regular basis. If you only drive the car a few times a year, then the all electronic will serve you better. If you look in the Links section of my web site at: https://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/ you will find several people listed who can rebuild you pump as a points style pump. I am the only one right now who does a solid state conversion on the pumps, but I don't work on the pumps during the summer months (that's the time I use to get home projects done). If you want me to do the work on your pump, you can get a Facet pump to keep you running during the summer and send me your pump in the fall (let me know and I'll put you on my tickler list to contact you mid Sept.), then you can use the Facet pump as a permanently installed backup pump.
Cheers,
 
First thing I would do is trot down to local NAPA, Autozone or equivalent and less than $50 will score you a new all-electric pump. Unless you are showing the car and want 100% originality I feel it's the best overall solution. Shows same disrespect to original engineers as installing a single 12v battery and converting to neg ground in a '67 (guilty as charged. Same argument backs up Pertronix install when not oem.
 
I don't know if mine is the same as a '77 but the '72 has the ground wire of the pump fastened behind the nut the holds the license plate on and if you remove the plate or have a build up of gunk on the nut or wire terminal, the pump wont work. Or will work intermittently if corrosion is present at the connection.
Also the first time I opened my pump and replaced the points I didn't follow the manual on the reassembly with the adjustments they call out and the pump wouldn't run. Follow the manual exactly when you put it back together.
Also another thought. The diaphragm gets stiff after a lot of use which can cause the pump to be intermittent over and above the usual point problems.
 
Can someone post pics of their Facet pump install. I have just bought one to replace that Rube Goldberg contraption they call a fuel pump on the 69 MGB I am re-awakening for a friend. I am looking at installing it roughtly where the SU pump went, and I may have to fab some sort of bracket.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Ok, since it's a British car, maybe I should call it a Heath Robinson inspired fuel pump.
 
https://homepages.donobi.net/sufuelpumps/

Click on the "Backup Fuel Pump" link for a picture of the Facet install. It looks to be attached to the rear heelboard with a switch coming through the board into the car. If I did a Facet pump install, that'd be what I go with; if you don't want to put the SU back in, you could make a blanking plate for the hole.
 
Got it. I found that article on a Google search yesterday, and used it as a reference.

Yeah, that pump is a little on the noisy side. Next time I think I may try one of the Facet round style pumps, combined with a regulator near the carbs.

Try Aircraft Spruce's website for fuel system items. The Facet pumps are half what they are from the big three or a Moss vendor.
 
rustbucket said:
Yeah, that pump is a little on the noisy side. Next time I think I may try one of the Facet round style pumps, combined with a regulator near the carbs.
Click to expand...

I have never understood why people would purchase the larger Facet pumps and introduce the complication of a regulator, when the little Cube pump or the Posi-Flow Facet pumps work just as well and put out the correct pressure (but then I have never understood the objections to the SU pumps either). The larger Facet pumps make just as much racket as the Cube pumps do and in my opinion, they don't work as well as the Cube pump does. All that needs to be done is to mount the pump on sound mounts and the noise level in the passenger compartment drops to the point of being barely discernible even with the engine off.

"Try Aircraft Spruce's website for fuel system items. The Facet pumps are half what they are from the big three or a Moss vendor."

NAPA has them for about that same price.
Cheers,
 
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