Ever argue with a cop?

[mrsprite]

I normally don't, but tonight was an exception. I hopped in the Bugeye to grab a Pepsi from a gas station about 1/2 mile from my house. The speed limit is 30MPH and I just don't speed in town.....ever (on the highway all bets are off! ). A local cop going the opposite direction pulls a U-turn and pulls me over as I was about to turn into the gas station. I pull over and as he approaches, I joke "Well, I know I wasn't speeding!", because I knew I was going exactly 30MPH. He had a serious look on his face and said, "yes you were speeding....you were going 42 in a 30 zone." I was taken aback and instantly told him that there was absolutely no way I was going 42 MPH. When you drive a Bugeye (or any LBC) you know what your car feels like and sounds like at certain speeds. I know what my Bugeye sounds like at 30 MPH.....besides, I've calibrated my speedo so it reads spot on and know that it is accurate.

Anyway, he runs my license and everything and comes back to the car telling me to slow it down, etc. and I'm still adamant that I was never speeding to begin with, but I bite my tongue since he is only giving me a warning.

Here's the question of the day.....if you got pulled over for something you know you weren't doing and the cop says to slow it down, do you acknowledge that and say "yes officer" or what?? I refused to acknowledge his 'slow it down' request because that (to me) implies that I was indeed speeding....which I wasn't.! Aaaah! It happened 4 hours ago and I'm still worked up about it.

I guess the real curiosity is if he truly felt that I was driving 42 in a 30 then why didn't he write me a ticket? 12 MPH over the limit is a pretty serious ticket.

Any thoughts?

 

[jsfbond]

LBC envy-osys, when this very serious malady strikes people in positions of power, it can turn ugly, very, very, ugly.

 

[davester]

Maybe he really meant that you ought to have been speeding, since you were driving such a cool car. Besides, when I'm going 30 in he Sprite, it certainly feels like I'm going 42.

 

[livinginthepast]

...yeah, but it's like arguing with a drunk. ;-)

So I'm ambling down the highway in a 1959 Humber Super Snipe a few too many years back when a cop goes by in the opposite direction. He swings around, the blue lights start flashing and I pull over.

He tells me that I need a front license plate. I retorted that cars registered as collector vehicles only need a rear plate. He told me I was wrong, demanded my license and registration, and walked back to his car. A couple minutes later he returns and literally throws the license and registration through the window, walks away, and tears off, not saying word.

Guess it was a bad day for the guy. Sheesh.

 

[JPSmit]

Any thoughts?

I struggle with this. I don't like to/ want to argue with cops because I think it only gets worse. Last month I got a ticket for an illegal right turn. Was I wrong? yes. Did I know it was wrong? No (and yes it was marked, I was just too busy watching traffic to notice.)

Problem was, when he asked if I knew why I was being pulled over, I honestly answered, "I have no idea." and he didn't believe me. Now I'm not naive, I know people lean on traffic laws all the time, (I do too) but I think we have a problem when law enforcement stops believing honest citizens. Once again, I know that it is hard to tell, but, he had computer access to my driving records, could have seen it was clean and maybe given me a warning. If it is dirty, throw the book at me, but, maybe it is important to give people the benefit of the doubt in some situations. Now, don't get me wrong, I have enormous respect for the police and the job they do, and, I know they are increasingly unsure about what they will find when they pull someone over, but, if they start to loose the respect of the general public with petty tickets, we have a bigger problem. Or, if we are afraid to debate and disagree with law enforcement, we have a problem. My sense is that serve and protect can become harass and annoy very quickly.

Not sure what the solution is, though I can't imagine why they couldn't re institute warnings and enter it in the system, so that if I get pulled over again they can see that I was warned recently and then make a decision.

 

[Hap Waldrop]

Yeah, I done it when I knew I was in the right. About 8-9 years ago, there was drug dealing going in the area of my shop, I take no crap off drug dealers, street thugs, etc. so I had been running these folks off from my area, and bugging the living crap of the cops to do their job, almost talking with the head of vice on a daily basis. Well one night I went to leave my shop it was probably 8:00 pm or so and it was dark, I pulled out of the front gate and proceeded on my way home, noticed in my mirror a cop all over my tail, now mind you I was poking in my big truck, so I knew I wasn't speeding. Well about the time I got to where my commercial property is, he blue lighted me, so I pulled into the commercial building parking lot that I own. The cop approaches my driver's window all scared, paranoid and all, ask for my license, registration and insurance papers, I asked him what I had done. Well he tells me this area is known for drug traffic and I had no reason to be there unless I was up to something. Ok this is when I totally lost it I ask the cop if he normally patroled the area and knew it well, he responded he knew it like the back of his hand, while he was still standing there with my papers in his hand. I reach up grabbed my papers and told him if he knew the area well, then he should know my business and my truck, and that I had been talking to his captain on daily basis about the problem, and he should know I'm one the good guys, not the bad guys. I was almost screaming at him, I told him, get your butt back in that police car and get it down there now and start doing his job, not wasting the time of law abiding, tax paying citzens and if he ever pulled me over again, he better by God have good reason to do so, rolled my window and proceeded to pull away. As I pulled away, that when reality hit me, OMG, I just told a cop off big time, and he going to come pull me over and really pull some crap on me in a big way, but as I looked back in the rear view mirror he just got in his patrol car and turned back towards the direction of my shop, and drove away. I was quite relieved

Bottom line, this wasn't the best way to handle this, but for me it was the cherry on the sundae, tha straw that broke the camel's back, after bugging the police to do their job in the area of my shop, the he pulls me over, thionking I'm a druggie ! Thank goodness the cop didn't decide to go on a power trip on me. I have to admit right after I realized the cop was not coming after me, I had a big smile on my face and it felt good, but don't think I'll try that tactic again


In another funny cop story, I had a cop pull me over on the highway one night late as when returned from a dirt motocycle enduro race years ago, I had a brand new Husky 430 Auto. I thought when I saw the blue ligts, oh crap, I must be speeding. The cop approached the window and ask me to get out of the car, he had his spot light on the Husky in the back of the pick up, then he proceeded to ask me how I liked the new 430 auto, and ask questions about, said he rode dirt bikes too and was thinking of getting one, and that was why he pulled me over to get a good look at the new 430 auto

Ok, last but not least, our car club went on mountain ride a few years back, and on a twisty road as we came around a sharp corner there was the NC state troopers with a license check, I was right behind my friend Marty who has a RHD MG TD, they were checking our license one by one, and when they got to Marty they walked up the left side of the car and ask for his wife, Patti's for her license, which she very nicely presented, and then ask the officer why he would check a passenger's license and not the driver, we all started LOL, the officer was pretty good about it all and chuckled too, and then waved us all by the checkpoint.

 

[vagt6]

I work with police on a regular basis and although I'm no expert, I have some understanding of procedures.

It's certainly acceptable to discuss the charge with the Officer. It's okay to disagree. But it's <span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span> appropriate to "argue" with law enforcement.

I'd think that the key in any conversation with the police is "friendly". Don't lose your cool, be friendly and polite. For example: "Officer, I sure do wish you'd reconsider", etc.

Police desire respect from the public and don't often get it. A little kindness and respect go a long way with most Officers. I think they all want to do their job and go home with as little stress as possible at the end of the day. Arguing with speeders does not reduce stress.

If pulled over, just be cool. Keep you hands visible, turn off the engine, do as you're told. Be as nice and as respectful as possible, don't get angry.

 

[mightymidget]

Law enforcement, I love them and what they do, "but" when they pull you have they are trying to build a case against you. They are trying to get you off balance so they can show you were agumentive in court.

Ever question they ask you are questions they are trained to ask you to use against you in court. Their JOB is to give you a ticket and to use what YOU say in court against you.

They are NOT the judge, the auguments are used in the court room with a lawyer. The LEO will take it an augermnet as a offensive action and they will become defensive.

As said eariler state once when questioned the truthful answer with respect, offer no additional information than needed. Have your paper work available before they walk up to the window,roll your window down just enough to pass the paper work through and hold a converation.

If they ask you to step out of the car roll the window up and lock door behind you discreetly. DO NOT consent to a search, I don't care if car is clean as a pin. they do not have a right to do this. they will threaten a search warrant but will never get one.

The police are getting paid to do a job and you are their prey - don't ever forget that.

and if you think it s about public safety. think about it some more while they drive off in the new patrol car on the way to the nice courthose to the rich judges chambers. but if you do wrong you deserve what you get

 

[scoutll]

Any thoughts?

Problem was, when he asked if I knew why I was being pulled over, I honestly answered, "I have no idea." and he didn't believe me.

I have been in law enforcement both federal and civilian level since 1973. Just like everywhere, there are good and bad. I have known a good number of people that I thought shouldn't even be doing the job, but then again, I have known far more who were good, admirable people.
A couple of things I have always believed, and tried to train my people to do is.
- When you approach someone, never ask them if they know why you are doing it.. This is not 20 questions. Politely and professionally inform them why you pulled them over. If they know what they did, your questioning them will only make them embarrased, or confrontational. If they don't know why, don't make them guess.
- It is not your job to lecture, chastize or debate. You are not their parent. Point out the violation, do you thing, and either arrest or let them be on their way as quickly as possible.
- Be reasonably sure what you are going to do before you even turn the lights on. You should know before you make contact whether you are going to write a ticket or just make a verbal correction. Yes, you can change your mind during the stop, but you should not base your actions on impressions after contact.
- Your main job is NOT, to kick a$$ and take names, or count coup. Your job is to protect the public and try to deter crime. You don't hang around the corner from the bar and watch the drunk guy get in his car and drive away before you do something about it. Try to keep him from getting in the car in the first place..

 

[mrsprite]

Thanks for the stories.....just to clarify things a bit, I wouldn't say I was "arguing" with the cop, per se. Although I guess technically speaking, I was......I wasn't raising my voice or anything, I just refused to accept the reason for the stop. I have been pulled over before and knew exactly why I was too.....I always acted contrite and apologetic, etc. and acknowledged that I was in the wrong, so I have no problem with that. This is the first time in 23 years of driving that I got pulled over when I was doing absolutely nothing illegal, so I was a little upset about that.

He did tell me that I needed a front plate too and I did acknowledge that yes I know I need one and I will get it fixed right away. I just refused to acknowledge or admit to speeding of any sort mainly on principle. I do respect the job they do and have complained that there are way too many speeders in town. It's just a bit ironic that I'm the one that got pulled over.

 

[Pythias]

For those who don't know this sight is very enlightening.

https://www.flexyourrights.org

The 10 rules are important, the main ones being always be polite and respectful, and NEVER touch a cop.

When asked "Do you know why I pulled you over?" DO NOT say,
"Why, did you forget already?"

That's not in the vids, but still worth keeping in mind.

When asked "Do you know why I pulled you over?" never admit to guilt. Instead, offer your license and registration, and IGNORE the question. It is legal for the police to lie to you, but not for you to lie to the police. Prudently and politely decline to provide information. Do not let the situation escalate, as you are sure to loose...

watch the vids...

 

[MGNoir]

If it comes down to a difference of opinion, that's a good time to take it to the judge. Once I had just taken the MG out of the garage after many months of rain. I had called up the insurance agent that AM to have it put on. Also had forgotten to put my tags on (that I had). Got pulled over for expired tags and also got sited for no proof of insurance. $450 in tickets or so. Went to judge, said "oops about the tags", showed I had them already and the insurance. Got charged $10 in court fees and everything else dismissed. End of story.

 

[bigjones]

When asked "Do you know why I pulled you over?" DO NOT say,
"Why, did you forget already?"

:banana:
I'll have to remember that one!

When I got pulled over in the 1500, he said I was going 50 mph in a 35 mph zone.
I said that could not be because this car does not go that fast. He was not amused but let me off with a warning

 

[Deleted member 8987]

I have a couple of times.
Once, came to a red light, main 4-lane, saw the cop stopped for his red on my left approach.
Turned right (legal) there was another signal 150' or less after I turned, sw the lights come on, did NOT stop immediately, as we were on a narrow bridge.
Get to the other side, pull over in my 1949 Willys Wagon, red with yellow flames, at 11PM.

He starts reading me the riot act about going zero to sixty in the space of 150' between those two signals.

I asked him if he would put that in writing.

Why, he asks?

If I did zero to 60 in 150', I would be well over 300 MPH in 1/4 mile, and with a flathead V-8 Ford engine that went obsolete after 1953!

Tossed my paperwork back at me, and off he went.

'course, been pulled over by cop buddies before, but the best was my taxicab yellow 1950 Ford, on I-84 in oh, 1972.

Had three recap 4-ply and one 6-ply truck tyre (16" factory wheels), so shook like heck above 75.
Speed limit posted then was 80.

He pulls out of a rest stop, lights and siren, and pulls me over.

All he wanted to do was talk old cars for a while....boring job out there, I guess.

 

[bigjones]

Best one was when I was living in England and had a 750 Bonneville - this was at a time when Jap bikes were taking over.
Anyways, I'm bombing along and out the corner of my eye I see a cop on a motor bike in an alleyway.
Sure 'nuf he pulls out and starts following me. After a bit he pulls alongside - he is on a white police Norton. I'm waiting for the pull-over signal but he gives me the thumbs-up and then lets rip. Bitchin'!

Cheers

 

[scoutll]

In 1974 I owned a panther pink 1970 Hemi Super Bee (wish I still had it).
One day I was on my way back from my parent's in Michigan, to where I was stationed in Ill. I was late, and pushing it pretty good. Just north of the Indiana line at close to 100, I passed a Michigan State Trooper coming the other direction. I tried to woah the car, but it was way too late, the lights came on and he turned a "U" in the grass median and took off after me. When he came up to the car, he said " I got you at 99 in a 55, but thought my radar might be wrong, so turned it off and right back on and got you at 91. I said yes, I saw you and started to try to slow down. He said, "you know, I was kind of hoping you would run for it. I would have loved to chase this 426 with my 440 Fury. That would have been a blast." Anyway, we stood there on the side of the interstate looking at engines and talking cars for a half hour. No ticket, just a warning that I better keep it down, the Indiana cops drove Mercurys and weren't that interested in talking cars with a MOPAR guy.. I was late already, so took his advice. One of two times I really should have been run in, but got a break.

 

[jsfbond]

....I wasn't raising my voice or anything, I just refused to accept the reason for the stop.

Keep it up and you'll be spending time with Jack Nicholson, singing "I feel pretty"

 

[jsfbond]

My absolute best cop / stop story was coming back To Vermont from seeing Bill Cosby in Lake Placid. It was about two in the morning and we had borrowed Mother-in Laws new 1987 Celica Supra 6 cyl. five speed. (Top end! like what is fifth gear for?) On the way over I went up a small rise that looked it would be great fun(air time)on the return trip. As We approached the "drop" on the return trip I goosed it ...a lot! We came over that tickle belly and I don't believe any of the rubber was in contact with the road. While in the air, I looked over to the right, and noticed a cop car sitting off to one side. Just about the same time we touched down his lights came on. He comes up to the drives door and asks for my Lic. & Reg. He comes back from his car, and asks me if I would take a breath test, being curious (never done one before),and the suddenly cooperative type I agreed. After passing the test, He said the reason he stopped me was there is a bar just down the road, due to close soon, He thought we might have been drinking. I was told to slow it down, and went off with just the warning.

 

[bgbassplyr]

I think about the times I didn't get stopped when I should have. Back in the early 60's, I ran from Charlotte to Atlanta almost every week-end. In those days, half the trip had to be done on Hyway 29, a mostly 2 lane which passed through 19 towns (many small ones), and wound it's way back and forth, up and down. Always ran it after midnight and put the hammer down on my trusty TR3A with the Abarth resonator only.
So I'm running about 4500 rpm, 90 in a 55 at 3AM, on a hilly section of straight road, check the mirror and there are lights three hills back. Top the next hill and the lights have gained a hill on me. Dropped her down to 55, just feathering the throttle to be as quite as possible, and the Georgia S.P. guy in a Road Runner darn nearly ran over me.I know he didn't see me but only heard that sweet sounding pipe howling in the night. He followed me for a short distance, then whipped around me and took off. I continued on this way for two miles and, sure enough, there he was hiding in a side road waiting on me. Eased on by at 55 and he took off in the opposite direction. Hammer back down all the way to Atlanta.

 

[Deleted member 8987]

If we are not talking about arguing, January of 1971, en-route NLON Sub Base to Charleston, SC, on I-95.
1967 Cougar.
Oh-dark-thirty, need to be in Charleytown in the morning.
Wife is sleeping passenger side, so I've got the radio off, dash lights cranked to "off", just driving.
Passed a GTO, and kept going.
Suddenly, headlights coming up fast on the left.
Figured it was the Goat, wanting to race, not in the mood.
Lights stopped at left quarter, ooops....nailed the brakes.
Delaware State Police.

He was on an overpass, his radar read to 100 or so, and I was off the scale.

Opened my wallet for license, he saw my Military ID card.
Asked where I was going.
Explained, also showed him dash light cranked down and wife just waking up.
Told him I thought he was the GTO, and I wasn't interested in racing.

He asked me to slow it down, told me to watch out for the Maryland Stater just across the line, and got in his car and left.

Found out later, Delaware Staters didn't care for miltary types, liked to throw you in jail for the weekend and talk Monday morning.

I figure I was 110-120, no ticket.