Electrical Wiring Question.

[Deleted member 3577]

ARRRGH!!!...I can't stand it anymore.

If I was in charge I'd make all Romex illegal...
You would spend a week in jail for every inch you sold.

About the stupidest 3rd world stuff ever made.
STUPIDSTUPIDSTUPID dangerous-nasty-idiotic-garbage

Knob and tube is much safer even if the insulation is gone.

EMT & FMC only!

OK...You guys made me do it....Whew!
I feel better now

 

[DNK]

Tony, Tony Tony,
I stand before you humbled and squashed.
Talked to one of my electricians today. Said it was over kill and a wast of money but your fine.

Hate it when that happens

 

[Mickey Richaud]

I stand before you humbled and squashed.
Hate it when that happens

Hey, Don - coulda been worse; you coulda been sliced and diced!

 

[Scott_Hower]

ARRRGH!!!...I can't stand it anymore.

If I was in charge I'd make all Romex illegal...
You would spend a week in jail for every inch you sold.

About the stupidest 3rd world stuff ever made.
STUPIDSTUPIDSTUPID dangerous-nasty-idiotic-garbage

Knob and tube is much safer even if the insulation is gone.

EMT & FMC only!

OK...You guys made me do it....Whew!
I feel better now

Care to elaborate? What, specifically, is wrong with Romex?
And why do you feel K+T is safer? Lots of folks would choose to disagree with you.

 

[DNK]

Scott- I was hoping that was in jest

 

[Deleted member 3577]

Care to elaborate?

I was wondering when someone would ask...

It comes form 2 primary problems...
Lack of physical protection offered to the conductors & cooling.

NMC (non metallic conduit) is illegal in many places including Chicago, which has done the ONLY comprehensive study comparing EMT to NMC.
They report NO household fires due to fixed wire failure using EMT (wiring from breaker box to switch or outlet)

So far as personal experience goes...
I have never seen EMT fail.
I have rewired 1 house where romex caused 2 deaths.
Partially rewired 1 house where romex caused severe damage.
And 3 houses where romex caused little fires that self-extinguished inside walls/ceilings.

All 5 romex failures were caused by improper installation.
Most romex was installed by 'professional' electrical contractors including the one were the people died.
I honestly trust homeowners more than I trust electricians because they are more careful.

I believe it will disappear from code eventually when the truth gets out.
For now, fire marshals only have to check one of 4 boxes.
Fixed wiring, appliance, reckless act or arson.

That's like saying the person died of circulatory failure.
Well what was it?...Stroke, heart attack, blood clot, aneurysm???

 

[Scott_Hower]

So Chicago is right and the rest of the entire USA is wrong?

I will agree that Romex/NM is more vulnerable when wiring a branch circuit and offers the possibility of physical interference. It is also FAR easier to use and install. You'll instantly quardruple the cost of residential wiring by requiring metal conduit. Most codes require plates to be installed to protect wiring where it passes through framing members. But once devices are installed, it's a moot point.

A far, FAR bigger issue IMO are cheap devices (like 10-pack receptacles sold at the big box stores for a few bucks) which permit stripped connectors with "push in" retainers. Yes, I know they are UL listed, I don't care. Just 3 days ago, a neighbor called me because his basement receptacles "were out". I grabbed my meter and my tools and headed over. A neutral had "unpushed" itself from the back of the receptacle, rendering the circuit in-op. I can't tell you how many times I've seen this. Buy quality receptacles, USE THE SCREWS and curl the wire the CORRECT DIRECTION.

Won't matter what wiring is used in this situation; inferior devices are a far bigger risk that the static wiring within the walls.

 

[martx-5]

So Chicago is right and the rest of the entire USA is wrong?

New York City also requires metal conduit. Most of it is the BX stuff (amored cable). The reason is that rats have more trouble chewing through it.

 

[Deleted member 3577]

A far, FAR bigger issue IMO are cheap devices (like 10-pack receptacles sold at the big box stores for a few bucks) which permit stripped connectors with "push in" retainers.

Can't tell you how many times I've seen 12 wire (& 20 amp breakers) using cheap 15 amp receptacles/switches.

And also improper 'daisy chained' outlets.
Always tie together the 2 wires and use a short run to screw into the outlet (as above)

BTW...EMT generally requires using a single cable into the receptacle on account of how hard it is to wire otherwise.
(A work box for every branch line)

 

[Scott_Hower]

Can't tell you how many times I've seen 12 wire (& 20 amp breakers) using cheap 15 amp receptacles/switches.

Another code violation.

Did I mention that I hate "back stab" devices.

 

[Deleted member 3577]

Zactly...

Imagine using a high draw device at the end of a long string.

It has to pull all that amperage THROUGH all of those questionable connections.
(assuming you stab the 2 in and the 2 out to the next outlet)

Oh well...Just buy more smoke detectors and up yer insurance.

 

[Scott_Hower]

Zactly...

Imagine using a high draw device at the end of a long string.

It has to pull all that amperage THROUGH all of those questionable connections.
(assuming you stab the 2 in and the 2 out to the next outlet)

Oh well...Just buy more smoke detectors and up yer insurance.

I have a spa/jacuzzi on my deck. It has a 5.5kw heater with dual 4HP pumps and requires a 50amp GFCI breaker. I wired it using 8 gauge THHN with a 10 gauge ground in non-metallic conduit all the way from my panel to the outside disconnect and then onward to the spa, underneath the decking. Probably 100 feet of conduit, with 8 pulling elbows. It took all weekend.

The electrical inspector could not believe that a howeowner actually wired it. He took digital photos and shook my hand. Said it was the cleanest install he'd ever seen.

 

[roofman]

What ever happened to your Spitfire Scott?

 

[Scott_Hower]

What ever happened to your Spitfire Scott?

Still have it; currently occupying the middle garage bay. Have most of the parts to finish it. I'm on the fence if I want to yank the engine and rebuild it, or drive it for a while. The frame and the body are so nice, it really should be a show car. I jus't dont want to sink that amount of cash into it (think college tuition/savings for two kids, simultaneously).

 

[Deleted member 3577]

Said it was the cleanest install he'd ever seen.

I've seen some good stuff done by homeowners...

You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to fix LBCs or install wiring properly.

It helps if you know someone when you get stuck in either hobby.

This is the forum for home and light industrial I recommend.

https://forums.mikeholt.com/index.php