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Electric Fan Question

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TR4A_IRS

TR4A_IRS

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I have been driving the 4A to work for the last couple of days (lucky me - its not sunny in Seattle, but its not 100F either). Today I hit a bit of stop and go traffic on the way home and was watching the temp guage climb towards the red. Luckily traffic picked up before I had to pull over and let the car cool down.

I guess I have two questions:

1) Is this overheating to be expected? I believe the cooling system is in good working order. Water pump and thermostat seem to be working normally, and the radiator is in good shape. I have experienced similar temperature rise before, in stop and go traffic, and the car has no problems maintaining temp when moving, even when it gets above 60F in Seattle. :whistle:

2) For those that have electric fans, do they do a good job for you in stop and go traffic. I plan to avoid traffic as much as possible, but you can't always do that in Seattle. I am considering adding an electric fan with a manual switch, if it has helped others in traffic.
 
Your description seems a bit much to me, indicating something may be less than perfect in the cooling system. With the TR3 and a stock radiator fan, it would get warmer in stop and go traffic; but the only time it got close to boiling, I spent close to an hour in traffic and temps were around 85-90F.

My electric fan (as a replacement for the stock fan) worked great on the 3A. I could flip it on, and the temp gauge would start dropping almost visibly (you could see it if you looked at it steadily). It wouldn't overheat, even in heavy traffic and 115F heat (although the driver overheated :smile: )

But it's definitely not a cure-all. The 3A proved to have a problem with the radiator tubes not being in good thermal contact with the fins : Nothing seemed to help with overheating until I had the radiator re-cored. And the TR3 is going back to the radiator shop soon, likely for the same thing after they do some tests.

If you can, I would definitely suggest an automatic control. I am forever forgetting to turn it off, or worse yet turn it on. DeRale makes a nice adjustable control, with an integral relay and a probe that just pushes into the radiator fins:
https://www.amazon.com/Derale-16759-Adjustable-Fan-Controller/dp/B000CN4XZI
 
Seattle temp at that time today . Probably 62 and not a bit of sun
 
Hi Ian,

I used to live in a much hotter place (Bakersfield, CA), had the mechanical fan, and never had any overheating issues. Then about 10 years ago I did a total rebuild on the engine, and since then I was always on the edge of overheating if the car wasn't moving. I never could find any reason for it.

I now have a thermostatically controlled electric fan (and an aluminum radiator, but that was more for the bling), and everything works well. I do recommend getting the largest fan you can fit. My first attempt was a 12" fan, and it just wasn't up to the job. I replaced it with a 14" Permacool fan (who are now out of business, I think). Aside from the larger size, it seemed to be a much more powerful fan, and things were much better.

I now have a 16" fan on my aluminum radiator.

-Darrell
 
Another thing I did with my new fan was to wire it to be on regardless of the ignition. So it really helps to cool down the engine compartment after shutting the car down. Both Volkswagens that I've owned (76 Rabbit and 09 Tiguan) are set up this way, (and I think my MR2 was as well, though that was a different fan in the engine compartment, not the radiator fan).
 
Randall,

I appreciate your point about the electric fans not being a cure all. I want to make sure everything in the cooling system is up to snuff, before adding an electric fan.

Since I was in stop and go traffic for about half an hour, I had the chance to observe the bahavior quite well. If the car was stopped, or nearly so, the temperature would creep up slowly after about five minutes. I never got there, but I think I would have been in the red after about ten minutes of being stopped. As soon as I was able to make decent forward progress, say 15mph, the temperature would stabilize and start to drop back towards the middle of the guage.

Since minimal airflow could cool the car, it made me wonder if this was just typical behavior for a car that is older than I am.

On a related note, I think the radiator is original. I had a leak repaired about 15 years ago, but haven't done anything else to it since I bought the car.
 
Darrell,

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I am going to look at my different options for the radiator. I think I have four:

1) Do nothing. The car is usually fine, since I don't sit in traffic often.
2) Recore.
3) Replacement stock-type radiator. (I am wary of quality)
4) AL replacement.

Window shopping is fun. Spending money, less so!
 
Ian, not a lot of places in our area for a recore. Performance Rad is about it.
140th and 99.
They do the work in Tacoma.
Company does all my work . Fuel tank too.
 
TR4A_IRS said:
Darrell,

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I am going to look at my different options for the radiator. I think I have four:

1) Do nothing. The car is usually fine, since I don't sit in traffic often.
2) Recore.
3) Replacement stock-type radiator. (I am wary of quality)
4) AL replacement.

Window shopping is fun. Spending money, less so!
Click to expand...

Hi Ian,

I'd add a good flush to the list as the first option. Refill with 50/50 water/anti-freeze, and maybe water wetter.

I do have my old stock radiator, which was re-cored about 10 years ago, and as far as I know is in good functional shape (the upper and lower tanks are a bit banged up). PM me if you might be interested.

-Darrell
 
DNK said:
Ian, not a lot of places in our area for a recore. Performance Rad is about it.
140th and 99.
They do the work in Tacoma.
Company does all my work . Fuel tank too.
Click to expand...

Thanks. There WAS a radiator shop in N. Seattle, on Aurora, a few years back. Don't recall the name, but they did the brazing on my curent radiator.
 
Any radiator shop should be able to handle the re-core, there's nothing magical about it. The core mine put in was a standard Modine core, and fit perfectly in the original frame. I opted to not have the crank hole installed, but they would have done it if I had chosen that way. My radiator guy said it would cut cooling capacity by about 10% and I didn't even own a crank at the time, so the choice was obvious.

Obviously you know the area better than I do, but Seattle Radiator Works looks like a good choice : https://seattleradiator.net/
So does Young Radiator (tho they don't seem to have a web site).
 
Darrell_Walker said:
TR4A_IRS said:
Darrell,

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I am going to look at my different options for the radiator. I think I have four:

1) Do nothing. The car is usually fine, since I don't sit in traffic often.
2) Recore.
3) Replacement stock-type radiator. (I am wary of quality)
4) AL replacement.

Window shopping is fun. Spending money, less so!
Click to expand...

Hi Ian,

I'd add a good flush to the list as the first option. Refill with 50/50 water/anti-freeze, and maybe water wetter.

I do have my old stock radiator, which was re-cored about 10 years ago, and as far as I know is in good functional shape (the upper and lower tanks are a bit banged up). PM me if you might be interested.

-Darrell
Click to expand...

Darrell,

The cooling system, was recently flushed, and has a 50/50 mix in there now. I am doubtful it is crudded up. I will keep your radiator in mind as I work through my options. Thanks!
 
TR4A_IRS said:
Darrell,

The cooling system, was recently flushed, and has a 50/50 mix in there now. I am doubtful it is crudded up. I will keep your radiator in mind as I work through my options. Thanks!
Click to expand...

OK. Did you also drain the block? If you remove the drain tap, you can use a wire to root around in there a bit. That probably won't make the difference, but something to check next time you change coolant.

You might already know this, but if you get in that situation again you turn the heat on (and the heater fan) to get a little extra cooling. Won't make a huge difference, but it could be the difference from needing to pull over or making a few more minutes until the traffic moves again.
 
Darrell_Walker said:
You might already know this, but if you get in that situation again you turn the heat on (and the heater fan) to get a little extra cooling. Won't make a huge difference, but it could be the difference from needing to pull over or making a few more minutes until the traffic moves again.
Click to expand...

Its funny you should mention that. I was thinking of that today, but realized that I couldn't do it without stopping the car. My heater valve (I think they all work this way) can be manually rotated to a "closed" position, that makes it nearly impossible to open with the knob. I usually close it off in the summer, and "re-open" it in the fall so I can have heat again. It was closed today...
 
TR4A_IRS said:
Its funny you should mention that. I was thinking of that today, but realized that I couldn't do it without stopping the car. My heater valve (I think they all work this way) can be manually rotated to a "closed" position, that makes it nearly impossible to open with the knob. I usually close it off in the summer, and "re-open" it in the fall so I can have heat again. It was closed today...
Click to expand...

Mine works that way, too.

World Wide Auto Parts (I think) is supposed to be able to rework them to work more smoothly, I'm waiting for Brosky to post his results. Only costs $15, I think.
 
Richard Good (Goodparts) now makes a beautiful and very functional radiator shroud for the TR4A. If you don't use a shroud or have that poor excuse for a replacement shroud, you might consider his item If it's not on his web site write to him. I was his trial bed for developement and got one of the first production pieces that he made. Good stuff from a Good guy. NFI
 
Jerry,

My shroud is cardboard, and is starting to sag, as they all do, but it is in pretty good shape. I didn't know GoodParts made a shroud for the TR4A. Thanks for the info. I'll keep it in mind if/when I replace the cardboard one.
 
The radiator shrouds I bought never fitted well so I made my own. It was simple. From light gauge cardboard I made a mock-up first, then copied the idea and dimensions into heavy duty double cardboard ( back to back pieces ). Then used glue and rust proof stapling/rivets, on both pieces , after shaping the finished shroud. I also applied undercoating/tar all over; a must for the wet NW. Others may have better ideas...Or, if lucky, the $ 40 Moss shroud will fit your car.
Robert
 
Forgot to mention, my 12 in. cooling fan hardly blows any air when car is standing still ( the purpose of this fan installation ). Do not know what is does when car is moving, although unscientific, I do not notice much difference!
 
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