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Door skins

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GregW

GregW

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I've been putting my body panels on recently and have run into a problem. The front and rear fenders line up to their shrouds and I can get the door to line up with the rear fender and rocker. The front fender to door gap sucks. Rubbing at the top and almost ½” of gap at the bottom. I’m thinking of making skins out of aluminum but I see that the original skin is tack welded to the door shell. What’s a good way to secure an aluminum skin to a steel shell? Or should I just stick with all steel? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Greg
 
A lot of the original body panels were selective fitted due to no two parts being identical in dimensions.

If the only problem is the door gap not lining up at the front edge, the edge can be extended or trimmed to match the fender line. Straightened & refolded if necessary. This is probably easier than putting a whole new skin on. You can see an example here:
https://www.acmefluid.com.au/larry/page20.html also a lot of ideas on panel repair & partial replacement. You can get door skins in aluminum or steel from Kilmartin AU but they are pretty expensive & likely not to fit any better than your present ones.

If you wish to replace a door skin with aluminum, consider that for non-structural bonding you might check out some of these "Fusor" products which are being used on a lot of new car panel assemblies.
https://www.lord.com/Default.aspx?tabid=1190#108B109BT30.
Modern cars are glued together wit these high tech adhesives. Just a couple of ideas.
D
 
Greg,

I would look carefully at the front fender mounting, perhaps there is some adjustment there to help line up to the front door edge. I would also check the hinges. When I was fitting my doors prior to painting I was having problems getting the gaps right. I switched the hinges from one side to the other and that solved it. Apparently the hinges were not quite the same, perhaps bent slightly by a previous bodyshop or just manufacturing tolerances.

I would recommend using steel for the door skins. My buddy has an older BMW ; a race version with aluminum panels and they dent easily. If you do decide on the aluminum, make sure the gage and type is strong enough to handle a bit of abuse.

Cheers,
John
 
Greg,
Just got done with this same problem on my BJ7 last year. My car was tough because it was built out of many many spare parts that were never on the same car. Are you building the car with the same panels/chassis that it was originally builet with? The front door gap was a problem on mine and I did two things to correct it. The first one to try is playing with the fender placement as well as the hinges. Push the top of the fender forward and with a board, pry the bottom of the fender back and clamp or bolt it and adjust from there. Had to shim the hinges as well. The second step was much more involved. Were your sills replaced? Mine were but were not done with the body panels I used. The sills had to be redone and the frame stretched or tensioned to its proper horizontal position for the body to line up and then re welded. The car now has awesome gaps on both doors front and back. If the sills were put in without the body on or the frame tensioned you will likely have bad door gaps.

Steve
 
Hi John,
The reason I suggested working on the door is that Greg said that the rear of the door lines up with the rear fender & the bottom of the door lines up with the rocker. Thus, the only place left to adjust is the front fender edge or the door edge itself. Changing the hinges would disturb the already good door bottom & back fits. The door front edge itself would be the easiest place to make corrections

BTW, I used "Fusor" #109B on some non structural panels & I defy any concours inspector to detect the difference. It eliminates all possibility of panel warping & weld finishing. Maybe a "little high tech" for folks used to the conventional methods to accept?
D
 
Thanks everyone for your input. I don't think I have the skill to refold the doorskin and bondo would be bad in this area (well, any area). I'll pick up a sheet of steel today just in case I can't do the weld and grind as Dave suggested. I probably need to take off a 1/4" of material at the top. As I thought about it, aluminum would be tough since I have a late BJ8 with the recessed handle. Screwing up the recess in steel is easier to replace.
 
Hi Dave,

I still think trying to adjust the front fender is where I would start. Much easier than cutting/welding/grinding etc.

Greg, Re-skinning the door sounds like a major job, especially because the door has compound curvature to retain it's shape and keep it from oil-canning. There's the door handle recess, curved break line and edge seams to deal with. It's really only a job for someone with lots of experience and the right tools (IMHO). I know someone down in Laguna Hills that is really good with adjusting doors (and panel beating). Might be worth a consult.

Cheers,
John
 
Hi John,
Maybe so. How do you increase the gap with the front fender. It is tight at the top. Bend the "A" post forward? How does this affect windshield alignment? True, you can decrease the gap by shimming the fender back from the post. Just curious.
D
 
Hi Dave,

To move the fender forward you loosen all the attachment bolts and slide/tap/persuade the fender forward as much as possible. Granted, you will not get a lot of movement but some might help. Obviously need to see how that affects the alignment at the headlamp area. The windshield post on the BJ7/BJ8 is secured to the superstructure and there is a cutout on the shroud that it comes through (picture below). There is a bit of gap here and covered by the windshield to shroud seal. The windshield post is independent of the front fender fore/aft movement. The bottom attachment is more flexible where the front dog leg attaches to the bottom flange(2nd picture below) but it should be obvious when the alignment is correct with the sills. Redrilling the bottom holes will allow some movement.

Cheers,
John
gap1.jpg


gap2.jpg
 
Hi John,
I may talk to your body man depending on how I do. It'll give me a good excuse to go to Laguna and eat at Renaissance. Ummm ummm Brie fondue! Anyway, I digress. If I line the fender up to the door the gap is tight the whole way and there is a 1" offset at the headlight. There are tabs on the inner rear of the fender that stop forward movement so I'm stuck there as well. I could cut them out but then the headlight is out of whack again. I don't mind making a new skin. It may be a fun challenge. I'd make sure it fit well before I took off the original skin. I have a shrinker and a bead roller so the only real fabrication problem I can foresee is the recess for the handle. That could be made separately, then welded into place once I'm happy with the shape (the main reason I’m leaning away from aluminum). I don't mind doing things twice to get it right which is good, cause I often do.
 
John,
Thank you.

TH,
Yes, a frame sag could close up the top door gaps. An easy way to check is to jack the car up with a jack under the frame side rails or outriggers & approx. centered on the doors. If the top gaps open up, there is a real expensive problem with the inner body/frame assembly. With a solid car, you can place a single jack anywhere & not have any of the door, bonnet, or boot lid gaps change.
D
 
Dave, You're welcome but it's sounds like your advice was right.

Greg, a 1" misalignment?! Time for the /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hammer.gif (and the welder/grinder) but it sounds like you have more tools and experience than the average shade tree mechanic. If you want to talk to Antonio I recently posted in the Tools section that he is offering welding and panel beating classes. He's got some great tools for doing areas like the handle recess but hopefully you can salvage your door w/o going to those extremes.

Cheers,
John
 
Good news! I got the shut lines between the door and the front fender aligned. I wound up using a very specialized tool called "the ratchet strap". I put one end on the inside bottom of the fender and the other end to the outrigger and cranked it down a little until the bolt holes lined up. Oddly enough, doing this increased the gap at the top to an exceptable level. Looks like the welder will sit quiet for a little longer. Thanks everyone for your help.

Best Wishes,
Greg
 
Hi Greg. I found that by rearranging the hinges, top to bottom, bottom to top sometimes helps in alignment. In your case the front fender may need to be readjusted. You can loosen the shroud to fender plate and from where the shroud bolts to the frame and perhaps pick up the needed adjustment. It's a slow and painful procedure (getting the doors to realign) I must have had mine off 4 or 5 times before I reached an acceptable compromise. If you look carefully at the hinges you'll see some are thicker (where they screw to the body) than others. Just a thought. Good luck.
 
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