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TR4/4A Do I Have an Axle Problem

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KVH

KVH

Obi Wan
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Here are two pics, one of each of my rear axles. My left axle has no shoulder to hold tightly into the "axle tube end saddle." As you might be able to see, even through the grease, the shoulder (or axle keeper) on the right is almost non-existent. I'm not able to see how that axle could possibly fit snuggly into the axle tube. Years ago, I'm told, the wheel on this side came off. Did the mechanic mess something up on reinstallation or are the two axles materially different?

Axle With shoulder Fitting.jpgLeft Axle with No Shoulder.jpg
 
The one on the right looks right to me. It actually has a shoulder, but it's hard to make out in all that grease. The shoulder is to locate the bearing on the axle, so the step is against the bearing inner race and the other side (which does nothing but help support the shoulder) tapers down to the shaft.

I'm not sure what's up with the one on the left; but it looks like the original shoulder was removed (eg turned off in a lathe) and that is a separate collar that has been used to replace it. Maybe that was a solution to not being able to remove the hub.

Is the hub still a separate piece? I ask only because my Ferguson tractor has the exact same construction, but the hub is one piece with the shaft (much stronger that way, even most cars have the hub integral to the shaft) and removing that collar is the only way to get the bearing off. The service manual gives instructions on how to break the collar to remove it; and the new collar is heated before being dropped into place. The idea being that it shrinks when it cools and locks so tightly to the shaft that even a press can't get it off.

Anyway, if there exists a one piece axle that can fit into the TR4 housing, I think a lot of racers would be interested to know about it. There was a conversion being made some years ago to use one piece Ford axles (by cutting them down and making new splines), but it also required modifying the housing to accept the Ford bearing and race. And I don't believe it is available any more.
 
The axles that came off my solid-axle TR4A looked like the ones on the left; my replacements were like the ones on the right. I like those better; there is no stress riser, which could cause fatigue cracking. I suspect that the latter were from a TR3 or maybe a TR4, but I don't really know.

Either way, the axle is located by the way it fits into the bearing. Then, shims are selected to achieve the correct float. As long as the seal rides on the smoothed part of the axle, it should work as designed.
 
The axle on the TR3 is shorter than the axle on the TR4. I believe the hubs are the same for both cars, but the housing and the axles are different.
That shoulder is also different between the TR4 and the TR4A solid axle.
 
Well, I learned something new. Looks like solid axle TR4A came with both styles; the SPC just says "alternative". The second listing is the same as the TR4 shaft (which was what was in the 4A I parted out long ago).

uUS4oYU.jpg
 
Hmmmm...that's interesting.

Anyway, I'm glad for the confirmation that you can use either one. I was almost certain that was the case, but not completely.

In any case, I didn't understand the comment about "holding tightly to the axle tube saddle." That shoulder is not an axle keeper; it's just something that locates the bearing when you press it onto the axle. The axle with the tapered part has a flange that serves the same purpose.

Here's what came off my car. It had more differential oil on the brake linings than in the differential, and not a bit of grease in the bearings. I wonder if they ever were greased. The smooth part of the axle looks tapered but really isn't; it's just the effect of the camera.

diff_7597_sm.jpg


Here are the replacement axles, after I took off the remains of bearings. You can see where the seals contacted the axles.

hub_7799_sm.jpg


Finally, all cleaned up and restored.

rear_axle_8316_sm.jpg


diff_on_frame_8334_sm.jpg
 
Gosh I'm so glad to have this site and learn so much. Yes, I was wrong--that collar doesn't hold tight to anything, and I can see how the axles may be an alternative design. Randall, where did you get that information and those part numbers? Showing my ignorance, what does SPC mean (spare parts catalogue)? And Steve, how did you pop those hubs off? My shop gave up, telling me something would break.


Another question: When I reinstall the diff, and jack up under the leaf spring, must I do both sides at the same time? Is there a trick to it? I'm imagining the entire rear end of the car lifting as I jack up from under the leaf spring. Also, if I jack up from under the middle of the left spring, I'll be blocking the fastening plate where the U-bolt goes through. What's the best way to proceed?


Thanks all.
 
Yes, SPC = Spare Parts Catalogue; the factory publication with all (or nearly all anyway) of the part numbers. The snippet above came from the 4A 2nd edition, which you can download at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2H2NJt34OffUFNWSFBDVDVCbkk

I've not done those high arch springs, but on the earlier flat springs I use a block of wood just in front of where the plate goes. Lifting the car is a possibility; but you should be able to get it high enough to start the nuts without lifting the car. The only time I've had trouble with that is when the new springs were way too stiff.
 
Steve,
Nice work, those look great!
Rut
 
As to how I popped the hubs off: I cheated. I told the guy who was selling them that I'd buy them if he could get the hubs off first. He sent them to a machine shop that charged him only $15 but took about a week to do it. Not sure what they did--maybe hey just had a really big press.
 
Rut, thanks. I must say, I'm having loads of fun with this. I'll almost be disappointed when the car is finished (to the degree they ever are, I mean...!)
 
Sarastro said:
Rut, thanks. I must say, I'm having loads of fun with this. I'll almost be disappointed when the car is finished (to the degree they ever are, I mean...!)
Click to expand...
Steve,
i spent the day at the farm pulling the guts out of doors, an engine and tranny out of a TR6, cleaning and sorting various parts, BUT I won’t have a shop until July if I’m lucky. Cant wait to get going again!
Rut
 
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