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NutmegCT

NutmegCT

Great Pumpkin
Bronze
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Maybe it's just my failing brain ...

Many Connecticut car dealers are offering a choice of a $3000 rebate or 12,000 miles of $2.99/gallon gasoline, with the purchase of a new truck or suv.

Now ... if gas sells for $4.99 (probably will be within a year), and the truck/suv gets 25mpg (a high estimate) -

then the 480 gallons I'd buy using my 12,000 mile allotment, at a $2/gallon discount, has saved me $960.

Why would anyone choose that over the $3000 rebate?

According to the dealers, the people buying trucks and suv's are all choosing the $2.99 guarantee.

T.
 
Because the difference requires more fingers to count on than they can muster. Even at 11mpg (like my LR3) you still make out with the rebate.

That said, the way truck and SUV sales fell off a cliff over the last month or so, I'd be asking for both...
 
Like Alana said, because there are wayyyyyyyyyy more people really really bad at math than there are people that are good at it.
 
AweMan said:
Like Alana said, because there are wayyyyyyyyyy more people really really bad at math than there are people that are good at it.
Click to expand...

:iagree:
 
Bad thing is, the gas discount probably did not cost the car maker or the dealership anything other than a bit of shared advertising.
 
NutmegCT said:
Why would anyone choose that over the $3000 rebate?
Click to expand...

For the same reason they can live off advertisements that say "<span style="font-style: italic">We'll pay off your loan, no matter how much it is</span>", and "<span style="font-style: italic">No credit application will be refused</span>". :rolleyes:

The same applies for <span style="font-style: italic">some</span> buyers of the Prius. You can twist the numbers any way you want, but someone with an older car that gets 20mpg would be able to drive around 75000 miles in their clunker on the money it would cost to get into the Prius. It's sort of like the "they're half off, so I bought two" attitude. :smile:
 
aerog said:
You can twist the numbers any way you want, but someone with an older car that gets 20mpg would be able to drive around 75000 miles in their clunker on the money it would cost to get into the Prius. It's sort of like the "they're half off, so I bought two" attitude. :smile:
Click to expand...

amen to that! think i'll hold on to my 2000 Protege 1.6. The 38mpg I get is becoming more valuable every day. And maybe even the car itself is becoming more valuable.

Started using my shiny new ScanGuage yesterday. Confirms the 38mpg overall after a 100 mile test drive. Actually showed 46mpg when I drove 50 miles round trip at an average speed of 40mph (two lane blacktop, light traffic, etc.)

Today I'm planning to see exactly what highway speed gives me highest mpg. Interstate with light traffic, test runs at 55mph, 60 mph, 65mph, 70mph etc. Five mile flat run, 5th gear, cruise control. Should be interesting, at least to confirm that "55 is the most fuel efficient speed for all domestic cars" I've been hearing about.

So far the ScanGauge seems very useful: realtime mpg, fuel flow, multiple trips calculation memory, etc.

T.
 
I would consider buying a Prius when they offer a plug in charger for the car's battery from my house, and the ability to use the Prius as an emergency power source for the house during power outages...

Now that would be neat.
 
Ray - the fully-electric car sure gets my interest. But I have yet to find how much I'd pay for the overnight charge. Just how much "draw" (kilowatt hours) is pulled into the battery during the nightly charge?

Frank - ScanGauge is proving very useful to me right now. The picture below (not my car) shows one way to use it - velcro'd to the steering column and plugged into the OBD port under the dash.

www.scangauge.com

IMG_3212_M.jpg


There are other and cheaper alternatives I'm sure. But it set right up in five seconds, scanned every OBD system sensor in the car, and I was using it within five minutes as I drove.

Tom
PS - in the picture, "FIA" means Fahrenheit Intake Air temp. Edit: there are *dozens* of readings; not just the RPM, MPG, MPH and FIA that are shown.
 
While many seem to fixate on MPG, the true cost of ownership and usage should be the cost of energy + purchase price + insurance + upkeep less the resale price divided by the expected number of miles to be driven.

You would be surprised at the true cost. I do not need nor do I drive a lot of miles. Last year it would have been considerably cheaper to take a taxi or rent a car, then own and use my own vehicle. But then there is the inconvenience.
 
NutmegCT said:
Ray - the fully-electric car sure gets my interest. But I have yet to find how much I'd pay for the overnight charge. Just how much "draw" (kilowatt hours) is pulled into the battery during the nightly charge?
Click to expand...

That's reasonably easy to calculate. If you consider that the battery is a simple energy storage device, it goes something like this.

Assume that a totally electric car has a battery system that drives a 60 hp electric motor and that the overall energy efficiency is 80 percent.
We would need the equivalent of 60/.80 = 75 hp or 75 x 746 = 55950 watts = 56kw
Lets further assume that the energy storge must permit a total of 2 hours at maximum rated voltage. Total stored energy = 56 x 2 = 112 Kw-hrs. If we charge the car when we get to work or wait until we get home, we would need to restore most of the energy, lets say 95 percent.

so , we need to provide a total charge of 56 x .95 = 53.2 kw-hrs

but chargers aren't 100 percent efficient. assume 60 percent eff.

53.2/.60 = 88.67 kw-hrs

the residential rate for electrical energy in the USA varies widely, but let's use $0.10/kw-hr as a conservative estimate.

88.67 x $ 0.10 = $8.87 to re-charge the battery. q.e.d.

Note: these are very rough calcs with a number of assumptions.
 
Following those rough calculations, and assuming that your commute could be done on a single charge. It would cost $177.40 in increased electricity for commuting five days a week for four weeks. Not including any weekend drive time. Depending on if I make any trips to Denver or not, my usual fill-up is once every 10-14 days. Using mid-grade fuel in my TR8, a full tank has been costing me about $50. So If I fill up three times in one month is only $150. That includes weekend driving, not just commuting. If you used the hypothetical electric car every day, and needed to recharge every night, it would run you $266.10 a month. Then you have to consider where that electricity comes from, if its from a coal burning power plant your really not cutting overall emissions very much.

Just comparing those rough numbers I'm still pocketbook ahead to keep driving my 30 year old V8 that still averages 22-23 mpg. For now anyway.
 
AweMan said:
Like Alana said, because there are wayyyyyyyyyy more people really really bad at math than there are people that are good at it.
Click to expand...

:iagree: I worked for a short time as a new car salesperson at a local Saturn dealership. I watched as they would show the mileage benefit the new car (supposedly) had over the old car and how much money a month the new car would save them in fuel. Of course the extra cost of the car payment was never factored in. Even people trading in cars that they owned outright would look past the monthly car payment figure to see a $20/month saving in gas. They would also round up liberally with their math.

Then again, the argument we were told to use if someone wanted to pay cash for a car instead of financing was, "Why would you want to pay cash for something that will depreciate $3,000 as soon as you drive it off the lot?" People would fall for that one too. I always thought, Why would I want to finance that depreciation over five years? The car will still be worth the same amount regardless if you finance it or buy it outright. But if you finance it you pay the interest on that depreciation. Then I found out about all the kickbacks the finance managers get from the lending institutions for sending them business. Really soured me on the whole thing. My customers loved me for my honesty, my managers hated me for the same reason.
 
keep the old (paid for!) gasoline burner - exactamundo!

I really appreciate you guys doing the math on recharge costs. By the way, where I live, one kilowatt costs 16¢. To be honest, in the promo's for electric cars, I've never seen the recharge cost part of the equation referred to - ever.

"Just drive it home, plug it in to recharge overnight, and look at the money you'll save in gas!"

Yep - you won't be buying gas, for sure. But you'll be buying lots more electricity. Why aren't people asking for the details?

oops - nevermind ... didn't Churchill say "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter”?

T.
 
Shawn, can you answer a question for me that ALWAYS ticks me off? What gives with a salesman when they say "Let me go talk to my manager."? What kind of b.s. is that? I know it is a ploy used by dealerships. It just irks me. :smile:
 
Here's an interesting cost analysis of electric vs. gas.

Be sure to click on the link for Tesla Motors at the beginning of the article. That will show you how far this electric car stuff can go. No compromises there. :yesnod:
 
Silverghost said:
What kind of b.s. is that? I know it is a ploy used by dealerships. It just irks me. :smile:
Click to expand...

I don't mind that, I just can't stand it when they try to sell the true-coat.
 
aerog said:
NutmegCT said:
Why would anyone choose that over the $3000 rebate?
Click to expand...

For the same reason they can live off advertisements that say "<span style="font-style: italic">We'll pay off your loan, no matter how much it is</span>", and "<span style="font-style: italic">No credit application will be refused</span>". :rolleyes:

The same applies for <span style="font-style: italic">some</span> buyers of the Prius. You can twist the numbers any way you want, but someone with an older car that gets 20mpg would be able to drive around 75000 miles in their clunker on the money it would cost to get into the Prius. It's sort of like the "they're half off, so I bought two" attitude. :smile:
Click to expand...

Nobody wants to hear that the old clunker is more affordable than a shiny new 2009 whatever that gets a zillion miles to the gallon (of BS.) OH NOOOOOO, that nice salesman over there TOLD me I could save enough money to retire on if I just bought the UPGRADES. The TRUELY sad part is we DO believe these clowns. We get soooo caught up in the moment that our brain shuts down and emotion kicks in. Look at Ebay. Same thing, different product. :wall:
 
Then you have to consider where that electricity comes from, if its from a coal burning power plant your really not cutting overall emissions very much.

<span style="font-weight: bold">True. But in practice it is considered more effective to control emmissions at the point of power generation. </span>
 
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