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Cylinder Honing

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backroadsjeff

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Anyone have suggestions regarding how to hone the cylinders with the block still in the car, and the crankshaft still in place? I'm concerned that the finings from the honing will mung up the crank...Additionally, how would one clean the bores after the honing process has been completed without compromising the crankshaft?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cryin.gif
 
Wrap the crank with heavy aluminum foil or any protective material. Try to anticipate the removal of the foil when you are done so you can see how it will come off with out a dump on the crank.
 
I have used an oiled shop towel around the crank to catch any grit and gunk. After that a good wipe with a clean oiled rag. Never had any problem.
 
IMHO,
i just wouldn't do that. pull the engine. you will never get it as clean as it should be and will probably ruin the whole engine.
Rob
 
if a jobs worth doing, its worth doing properly.i know a shop that does boring/honing,while block in car, they do not like doing it this way. as you'll appriciate the engine should be immaculate, pressure cleaning of oilways etc.by saving time now, you could end up paying for it later.best of luck.
 
[ QUOTE ]
if a jobs worth doing, its worth doing properly.i know a shop that does boring/honing,while block in car, they do not like doing it this way. as you'll appriciate the engine should be immaculate, pressure cleaning of oilways etc.by saving time now, you could end up paying for it later.best of luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

The engineer in me agrees with you. My reason for the question was to see if there is a practicle, reliable means to accomplish a ring job in place including the honing. The impetus for the effort was to correct a smoking/plug fouling engine (#4 Cylinder). I want to do as much as reliably possible to the engine while it is apart yet in the car. (I won't go into the reasons why I didn't pull it in the first place). Unless someone can convince me honing the cylinders in place can be done well I'm going to just replace the oil control ring on #4, and the connecting rod to crank bearings and be done with it. As time and funds allow I can better plan to pull the engine for a "proper" rebuild at a date hence.
 
[ QUOTE ]
...Unless someone can convince me honing the cylinders in place can be done well I'm going to just replace the oil control ring on #4, and the connecting rod to crank bearings and be done with it. As time and funds allow I can better plan to pull the engine for a "proper" rebuild at a date hence.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, Jeff, count me as one of those who carefully covered the crank beforehand, cleaned up scrupulously after, and had no problems doing this with two stock Volvo B18 engines and one modified Spitfire 1147 engine.

If you've gotten this far in disassembly, please go ahead and check/measure all four cylinders. If all measures out ok, do the necessary ridge reaming, honing and cleanup, and replace ALL the rings on ALL FOUR cylinders. At the very least, you'll need to do the hone/new rings on any piston you've removed, as pretty much everyone I've ever talked to says you SHOULD NOT put back in the same rings you took out.
 
I would Plastigage those crank bearings. 40 some years ago when I was just a pup I put an engine together and did not check the bearing clearance.
Other than turning a bearing and scoring the crank it did not hurt anything. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
After honing simply wash down the cylinders with water and laundry soap...Tide works good. Then dry the engine with compressed air.

Mechanics have been doing it this way for 75 years....I've NEVER had a problem doing a hone job while the engine is in the car and it's an accepted practice all through the industry.
 
I'm not quite that old Yankee, but when I was young I did a bit of wrenching and never pulled the crank to hone. Just was very careful with the cleaning. Never a problem.
Snake would say that I'm much older. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I must be missing something. Why not just take the liners out and hone them and then replace the figure 8 gaskets.
 
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I must be missing something. Why not just take the liners out and hone them and then replace the figure 8 gaskets.

[/ QUOTE ]Good point...at least on a wet-liner engine. But seems to me that there is just as much potential for littering the crank with various debris while removing the liners!?
 
Aren't liners are available for engines that have been overbored. I do not believe my '73 has them.....

Not to doubt the advise given by the fine members of this forum, I consulted with the machinist who did my cylinder head, and between him and you I am going to do the honing.

In my opinion, I have come too far not to. I plan on being scruplious and probably overly obsessive about shielding the crank from the debris. The Machinist recommended copious amounts of WD40 after the wash stage on the crank. Once reassembled he also recommended cranking the engine with the plugs out to build oil pressure and flush out the bearings, then change the oil before attempting ignition and run in....
 
[ QUOTE ]
I must be missing something. Why not just take the liners out and hone them and then replace the figure 8 gaskets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, too.

However I think the original poster was asking about in-car honing Spit or TR6 engines (no cylinder sleeves in those engines, unless one or more have been installed to repair damaged bores, and then that would be a permanent sleeve anyway). On that engine, honing *might* be done in-car.

If it were the TRactor motor with it's interchangeable cylinder sleeves we were discussing, I'd never try to hone that in place. The reason is that there's just too much likelihood of causing a leak under the figure 8 gaskets when messing around with the bores, and no reason to take a chance on that. IMHO, it would be far better to take the sleeves out (carefully marked which is which and each's original orientation, so they could all be reinstalled in the same way), do the honing and clean thoroughly, then reinstall with new gaskets under them.

Heck, if paying a machine shop to do the work it might cost roughly the same to simply replace the sleeves with new. Besides, if the engine has lots of miles on it and there's crud build up on the water jacket side of the cylinder sleeves, it may pay to install new ones anyway, to help insure best possible heat transfer.
 
Hi all,

Been a few months since I last posted. 2 weeks ago I finally got back to the TR6 and finished putting it back together! This is after replacing the brake master cylinder in my Spitfire.

Turns out the root of my problem was a distorted piston from something that entered the cylinder at one time. This foreign object migrated to the "squish" area and created clearance, this crimped the ring grooves and damaged the oil control ring.

I must admit I was somewhat hesitant to fire it up, but after static timing it, and rechecking everything I went for it. IT STARTED RIGHT UP! Asit warmed up I noticed quite a bit of smoke/steam coming from the engine compartment. The smoke was from bits of oily dirt that got on the manifold, and the steam was from the heater pipe compression fitting from the water pump. I did notice a bit of vapor coming from the exhaust as well. So I shut her down and proceeded to retighten/retorque the leaky bits and the cylinder head. Fired it up again and let the oily crud burn off and all seemed well!

Took it out the following weekend for a shake down cruise, and it behaved reasonably well save for some misfiring at low RPMs - need to track that down. I'm attempting to attach a .pdf file of a portion of the rebuild, but it's pretty large so I don't know if it'll take...
 
Well Jeff It's good to have the car making smoke again, isn't it.

Congrats on getting it running again...now the next time the task won't be so daunting.
 
Worked as a Honda Tech a couple of decades ago. When Honda was doing the exhaustmanifold/headgasket update this was common practice. Bet I did over a thousand of them over the stretch of 5 years.

Cover the crank, used shop towels, some people may want to tape butcher paper over the journals. Hone, then when done honing(make sure you're liberal with the cutting fluid, honing goes quicker) Get an old toilet bowl brush, HOT soapy water and wash the cylinder walls, blow dry then add light coating of oil to the cylinder walls.
 
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