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crankshaft bolt
- Thread starter weewillie
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Hap Waldrop
Yoda
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Actually, the key is already buried inside harmonic balancer/lower pulley and the keyway does not protrude beyond the pulley/balancer. There is a tab washer that goes behind the bolt, but since it's a single fastner tab washer it cannot do anything to secure the bolt, it has always amused me why they even have those. I don't use the tab washer, just red locktite and torque it down.
jlaird
Great Pumpkin
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Hap, one of us is wrong. Mine is as I said. and IPL Illistrated Parts List shows the same?
Hate to take mine off to check but I am 99% sure.
Now that said, I am sure red locktie would hold it, weee, would it ever. I put anti-seaze on mine. My prob is always getting them off.
Hate to take mine off to check but I am 99% sure.
Now that said, I am sure red locktie would hold it, weee, would it ever. I put anti-seaze on mine. My prob is always getting them off.
Hap Waldrop
Yoda
Offline
Jack, gottcha this time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Use VB Midget catalog for a reference, I got both part numbers in stock and am looking at them as I type. Part # 1-084 is the camshaft tab washer, it has a keyway, that's proabably the one you're thinking of, ( I don't use that one either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif) Part # 1-094 is the crankshaft tabwasher which is a cup washer with no keyway and is designed to be installed with cup's rims facing outward, in otherwords, looking into the cup, so that when the crank bolt is installed you just tap down the edges of the tab washer. Now think about Jack how could a tab washer not connecting to anything else but the bolt do anything to secure it, and next time you build a motor, save that $1.20 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The British engineer who thought one up a pint too any the night before.
OP
weewillie
Darth Vader
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ok here's what I found, I took the one of another engine i have and the crank has a keyway and a flat opposite the keyway. The washer I took off does not have a tab for the keyway but one side of the washer was bent over to engage the flat and the opposite side was bent over the bolt head, so I locked the tabs and locktited the bolt also.
Hap Waldrop
Yoda
Offline
That will be fine Willy, the only point I'm trying to make is the tabwasher is not really needed. There's alot of tab washers on these cars that I never use, cam tab washer, tab washer on them rear hub nuts to name a few. I use red locktite in every one of those places that I don't use the tab washer.
jlaird
Great Pumpkin
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LOL, look at Moss cat. page 8, item 5, number 460-470. Use a mag glass if you have old eyes like me you can even see the cutout that engages the key. Also note how far forward the key shaft is so a bit sticks out past the pully housing to engage this lock tab washer.
Hap, one of us is going to owe the other lunch?
And I use the cam tab washer as well, cause it make me feel better.
Again I am sure Locktight red will hold it as well.
Hap, one of us is going to owe the other lunch?
And I use the cam tab washer as well, cause it make me feel better.
Again I am sure Locktight red will hold it as well.
Re: crankshaft bolt do nothings
""""""he British engineer who thought one up a pint too any the night before. """""" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif
Nooooo...noooo Hap.......The British engineer in question was a member of the Mowog family. They owned the Hudson on Thames Washer Company which was part of the Mowog Group.
They had a lock "so to speak' on all the locking tabs used in all the motors in the UK. made gazillions of #'s.
""""""he British engineer who thought one up a pint too any the night before. """""" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thirsty.gif
Nooooo...noooo Hap.......The British engineer in question was a member of the Mowog family. They owned the Hudson on Thames Washer Company which was part of the Mowog Group.
They had a lock "so to speak' on all the locking tabs used in all the motors in the UK. made gazillions of #'s.
Hap Waldrop
Yoda
Offline
Re: crankshaft bolt do nothings
Jack, Ok first off we're talking about a 1275 with a harmonic balancer and not a 948 with the standard bottom pulley. On a 1275 the key does not protrude beyond the pulley, if it did, you would for sure have to have a washer or spacer to allow the crankshaft bolt to seat against the harmonic balancer and not the leading edge of the keyway in the crank. Bottom line without pulling out a complete 948 engine from the "caves" of my shop, I cannot depute whether the key protrudes, but again I pretty sure it doesn't for the same reason, the bolt would not squarely seat without a washer/spacer. Jack, I can't tell what the Moss part looks like, but the illustrations are the same for both VB and Moss and Item #28 part number 1-094 in VB Spridget catalog appears to be the same as the Moss part and VB part# 1-094 is a cupped washer with no key way.
Jack, Ok first off we're talking about a 1275 with a harmonic balancer and not a 948 with the standard bottom pulley. On a 1275 the key does not protrude beyond the pulley, if it did, you would for sure have to have a washer or spacer to allow the crankshaft bolt to seat against the harmonic balancer and not the leading edge of the keyway in the crank. Bottom line without pulling out a complete 948 engine from the "caves" of my shop, I cannot depute whether the key protrudes, but again I pretty sure it doesn't for the same reason, the bolt would not squarely seat without a washer/spacer. Jack, I can't tell what the Moss part looks like, but the illustrations are the same for both VB and Moss and Item #28 part number 1-094 in VB Spridget catalog appears to be the same as the Moss part and VB part# 1-094 is a cupped washer with no key way.
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
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Re: crankshaft bolt do nothings
I'm coming into this thread late, so I may be missing something. The pulley is "locked" to the crank with a key. The cup washer is loked to the pulley by bending a lip into a dent that is casted into the pulley. Then the other side of the cup washer is bent up to lock the bolt. So it does indeed lock the bolt in place to the crack via the pulley and its key.
I'm coming into this thread late, so I may be missing something. The pulley is "locked" to the crank with a key. The cup washer is loked to the pulley by bending a lip into a dent that is casted into the pulley. Then the other side of the cup washer is bent up to lock the bolt. So it does indeed lock the bolt in place to the crack via the pulley and its key.
Hap Waldrop
Yoda
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Re: crankshaft bolt do nothings
Yes the pulley/harmonic balancer has a keyway slot and the crank has a key, same deal on the cam as well. Here's the deal, or what we are very friendly debating, is the keyway does not protrude beyone either the harmonic balancer on the crank or beyond the camshaft gear on the cam on a 1275, so even if Moss or VB sell a key tabwasher for a 1275 they are useless and serve no purpose, well that's what I'm debating anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm building a 1275 right now, installed the timing gears and degreed the cam today, before the cam nut was installed with cam pulled agianst the thrust plate as much as I could, the key was recessed .120" in the cam gear. Tommorow I will install the timng cover and harmonic balancer and record that data.
Jack, I'm thinking medium rare /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Yes the pulley/harmonic balancer has a keyway slot and the crank has a key, same deal on the cam as well. Here's the deal, or what we are very friendly debating, is the keyway does not protrude beyone either the harmonic balancer on the crank or beyond the camshaft gear on the cam on a 1275, so even if Moss or VB sell a key tabwasher for a 1275 they are useless and serve no purpose, well that's what I'm debating anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm building a 1275 right now, installed the timing gears and degreed the cam today, before the cam nut was installed with cam pulled agianst the thrust plate as much as I could, the key was recessed .120" in the cam gear. Tommorow I will install the timng cover and harmonic balancer and record that data.
Jack, I'm thinking medium rare /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
Offline
Re: crankshaft bolt do nothings
oh, a TABBED washer... haven't seen one on a 1275 crank. I was talking about the cupped washer that locks the crank bolt to the harmonic balancer.
ignore me... carry on
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
oh, a TABBED washer... haven't seen one on a 1275 crank. I was talking about the cupped washer that locks the crank bolt to the harmonic balancer.
ignore me... carry on
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Hap Waldrop
Yoda
Offline
Re: crankshaft bolt do nothings
[ QUOTE ]
oh, a TABBED washer... haven't seen one on a 1275 crank. I was talking about the cupped washer that locks the crank bolt to the harmonic balancer.
ignore me... carry on
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
The cupped washer that bends over the crankshaft bolt, how could this possibly do anything to secure the bolt, save your money you don't need it. I bet I've have probably built alteast 50 1275s, building two right now, never, ever used it, never, ever had a problem because of it.
[ QUOTE ]
oh, a TABBED washer... haven't seen one on a 1275 crank. I was talking about the cupped washer that locks the crank bolt to the harmonic balancer.
ignore me... carry on
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
The cupped washer that bends over the crankshaft bolt, how could this possibly do anything to secure the bolt, save your money you don't need it. I bet I've have probably built alteast 50 1275s, building two right now, never, ever used it, never, ever had a problem because of it.
Trevor Jessie
Yoda
Offline
Re: crankshaft bolt do nothings
But Hap, there should be an indention in the pulley to lock the cupped washer. The very first crank bolt I removed (from a very dirty engine) I stuck a 1/2" impact gun on it (I assumed it was held by loctite). It wouldn't budge. Then I cleaned it up and saw that washer. I bent the washer down and the bolt zipped right out. It does hold the bolt.
But Hap, there should be an indention in the pulley to lock the cupped washer. The very first crank bolt I removed (from a very dirty engine) I stuck a 1/2" impact gun on it (I assumed it was held by loctite). It wouldn't budge. Then I cleaned it up and saw that washer. I bent the washer down and the bolt zipped right out. It does hold the bolt.
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Re: crankshaft bolt do nothings
I seem to recall a thumbnail sized "U" shaped, or "half-moon" indentation in the pulley face, right at the I.D. to whack the I.D. edge of the washer into as well. Mebbe I'm thinking B engine though.
EDIT: Either way, Loctite 271 is a better method, IMO.
I seem to recall a thumbnail sized "U" shaped, or "half-moon" indentation in the pulley face, right at the I.D. to whack the I.D. edge of the washer into as well. Mebbe I'm thinking B engine though.
EDIT: Either way, Loctite 271 is a better method, IMO.