• Hey Guest!
    British Car Forum has been supporting enthusiasts for over 25 years by providing a great place to share our love for British cars. You can support our efforts by upgrading your membership for less than the dues of most car clubs. There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Upgraded members don't see this banner, nor will you see the Google ads that appear on the site.)
Tips
Tips

Cold Starting Proceedure

Share this page

Webb Sledge

Webb Sledge

Jedi Warrior
Offline
Hey all. I haven't had any problems starting my TR6 over the summer, but now that winter is rolling in and the nights are getting colder... (cue menacing sounding drums)

Just wondering what you've found the most effective way to start a bone cold Triumph. I've been giving it one prod of gas (I have Webers) and then pulling full choke, but even then it still takes around 2 minutes of turning over before it begins to catch on a few cylinder, finally starting.
 
Hello, Webb! It's been awhile since I saw your car. Two Webers!

On single carb sixes, all it takes with a well-tuned engine is a full pull on the choke and a few cranks of the starter. If I'm not mistaken, only one of your webers is choked, correct?

Anyway, you may wish to examine your choke cable and connections.

I hope this helps, drive safely and enjoy winter driving!

Cheers,

Mark in C'ville
 
No, both my carbies have chokes on them, which is why i wonder if the starting time shouldn't be shorter. Perhaps I overestimated the cranking time, it's probably more like 45 seconds to a minute. One thing I'm not entirely sure of is how I've balanced the carbs. If they're not perfect, I feel pretty sure they are close, but I don't know how much this would effect starting.

I did do a few adjustments to my linkages (cable), which seem to be in order now. Nothing to it really, just so that a full pull on the knob gives full choke on the carbs.
 
On mine TR250 (HS6's), it really doesn't matter the temp outside, but how long since I last drove it. If I drove the car the day before, full choke and 1 crank and she starts.
This morning 50deg outside, since I drove it to work yesterday , it fired the first time. If it sits 3-4 days, I used to find myself cranking it about 4-5 times before it fired. I eliminated that problem by now giving the fuel pump a few lifts on the lever and the problem has gone away.
 
To my understanding, the fuel evaporates out of the float bowls as the car sits. Filling them by hand operating the fuel pump will lessen the cranking. On the other hand, maybe some cranking before it starts may not be such a bad thing - gets some oil priming at lower rpm. I usually turn it over for 5 seconds or so, then pull out the choke and she'll fire up. I would tend to think that it shouldn't take a minute or two to start up - maybe the car with the Webers (sorry I've forgotten who posted that and I can't see it now...) isn't getting richened up enough. Does it run OK once it is started and still cold? If it's hard to keep going until it's warmed up it sounds like you're not getting a rich enough mixture somehow. Pete
 
Hi Webb...
My 6 still has original ZS carbs, starts up very quickly, however, I fiddled last year with the mixture to get it lean and went a bit too far.
It had the same symptom you describe, long cranking times, it also used to "pop" a lot on the closed throttle over-run condition. When I enrichened them a small amount it fixed the problem.
Maybe you have your Webers too lean?
 
Hi,

First a question: Which Webers do you have installed on the car?

If they are downdraft, I can't really give any suggestions.

If they are sidedraft such as DCOE, I might be able to help. On the chance these are what's on your car, here are some ideas.

I've had a pair of DCOE on my TR4 for 25 years and the chokes have never been operated (there's not even been a cable connected). The "choke" on a sidedraft Weber is really more like a small, separate carb or enrichment circuit, not really a choke. It's also pretty much worthless.

Since DCOE and similar have an accelerator pump, the method I use (and I've heard widely recommended) is to just forget about using the "choke", fully pump the pedal two or three times, then hold so that the throttle is slightly open. Crank the engine and it should kick over, but might run a little rough at first and not want to idle. Use the pedal to hold the throttle slightly open for a minute or so, until the engine settles down and wants to run and idle more smoothly.

If it doesn't start first try, repeat up to three times.

After that it's likely the engine is flooded and might be necessary to clear it by holding throttle wide open (no pumping... just slowly press the pedal to the floor) and turn the engine over, releasing the pedal partially as soon as the engine starts.

Hopefully this helps. DGV and other downdraft Webers are different animals and I honestly don't know how their chokes are set up or if any of these techniques will work.

If problems persist, I'd suggest checking timing, spark plugs, wiring, points, valve lash, fuel supply, fuel pump, carb balance, carb float settings, cleanliness of fuel/condition of any filters, etc.

p.s. Also, do you have an electric fuel pump? One would do a better job filling the float bowls at start-up, prior to trying to trying to start the car.

A Facet pump, for example, is small and can be hidden under the rear of the car or in the trunk if you wish, might be used in conjunction with or as a backup to the original fuel pump.

Using an electric fuel pump, exepcially with Webers, fuel pressure needs to be regulated to about 3 or 3.5 psi.
 
I actually do have downdrafts. From the sound of it, I might have my carbs a little to lean. Like Graham's car, mine tends to pop quite a lot on overrun, and while isn't exactly difficult to keep running, it would prefer to cut off when the engine is still cold. I'll pull the plugs again today and see where they're at. They've been black with just a hint of brown in them, telling me its running just a tad rich, where I like it, but perhaps they've gotten off a bit. I'll also try priming the engine tomorrow morning to get some gas in the floats.

Another wierd problem I've been having, and I don't know if it's related to this or not, is a tendency for the engine to cut out even when it's warm. I've got the car idling around 800-900 rpm, but sometimes when I push the clutch in to come to a stop and shift to neutral, the revs will just keep dropping until the engine dies. Giving the engine a blip of throttle right before it drops below 500rpms seems to revive it, and it begins running normally again. Anyone got any ideas about this?
 
Hello Webb,

from all that's been said, it does seem as though it is too weak at idle. When you do a plug check, try leaving it at idle for some time and then see what colour the plugs are? The plugs only reflect what state the engine is just befor eyou pull them. In other words, it does not necessarily show mixture across the rev range.
Before diagnostic equipment was available, the racing mechanics would have the driver run at full load and then cut the engine and coast so they could check that the mixture was right on full power, and especially to see if the mixture is not too weak.

What and how many Webers do you have fitted?

Alec
 
I have 2 downdraft webers. doesn't it take a while for the plugs to change color though? I wouldn't think that simply letting it idle for 10 minutes or so would generate a color on the plugs.
 
I purchased a 59 TR3A a couple of years ago and it has two downdraft Webers. At first I had trouble with it idleing properly, a flat spot when accelerating and the plugs would foul (turn black after only a few miles. After several other attempts at correcting these things I installed a fuel pressure regulator and set it at 3LB and everything is fine.
 
Here's my cold start procedure for the TR3:
-Press the priming lever on the fuel pump many times
-Pull the choke
-Thumb the starter button
-Get back out and shoot starter fluid
-Scream at the starter as it bogs
-Rub Buddah's belly, cross myself, say the Sh'ma, read Dianetics, face Mecca, rub the rabbit's foot
-Curse
-Get excited as it starts
-Curse as it dies
-Grind the starter a little more
-Wait for it to catch again
-pump the gas hoping to get the revs up enough to clear the cylinders
-scream with joy
-Pass out, because at this point I usually have forgotten to open the garage door.
 
Why does sammy's starting procedure sound so very familiar to me, i wonder.....?

Oddly enough, I don't have a primer lever on my fuel pump (factory pump attached to the engine block). I was hoping to be able to prime it this morning, only to find no lever.
 
Cold starting my TR4 used to be a hassle for me. A new gear reduction starter solved most of the problems. Then I rebuilt the carburetors last winter. Now, it starts on the first crank every time, if it's been sitting for up to three or four days. I don't know about how difficult it would be to start for any time longer than that, since that's the longest I've let it sit in the past year. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Do not know if Moss sells fuel regulators. I had mine installed by a local shop and do not know where they bot it. However looks pretty generic and would think a parts supply store would have one or could get you one.Best I can describe where mine is located is there is a fuel line from the fuel pump (have original type manual pump) that runs up and along the top left side of the valve cover. And this is where the regulator is located( real easy to get at and
adjust)After I picked it up from the shop I experimented with different settings (guage goes from 1 to 5 lb) and 3 seems to work the best.
 
Webb, I don't believe the TR6 fuel pumps ever had priming levers. (Could be wrong -- someone please correct me if I am.) I know my TR-250 did not, but it might have been a reproduction pump.

Until fairly recently, the reproduction TR2-4 pumps didn't have the priming lever. Now they offer the original AC-spec pumps with a lever.
 
Thanks guys. I'll check Autozone for a fuel regulator asap. I fouled another plug today... starting to get on my nerves a little. What causes fouled plugs? I still don't completely understand, because it just started doing this a couple weeks ago out of the blue.
 
[ QUOTE ]
What causes fouled plugs? I still don't completely understand, because it just started doing this a couple weeks ago out of the blue.

[/ QUOTE ]

A plug? Is it always the same plug? If so, it could be as simple as a bad plug wire. Or maybe a problem with that particular cylinder (valve problem, etc.).
 
It seems to do it pretty consistently on the number 3 cylinder, and one other. I don't think it would be a cylinder problem, given that the engine is both fairly new and I haven't been having this problem for the past year (since it was rebuilt).

Still though, what causes a plug to foul? I'm talking about the mechanics of what happens inside the cylinder that causes it to foul.
 
Back
Top