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Classic car club at risk of closure over repair bill

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this is an all to familier scenario these days - all goes well until a BIG hurdle and then done. Many churches in my part of the world are a boiler or a roof away from closure.
 
JPSmit said:
this is an all to familier scenario these days - all goes well until a BIG hurdle and then done. Many churches in my part of the world are a boiler or a roof away from closure.
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My great grandfather was at at the beginning of the 1900's president of the "First Romanian American Congregation" at the time one of the largest synagogues in Lower Manhattan, It could seat at least 1,600 people, and was know as the "Cantors Synagogue" because ALL of the top cantors of the time were there.
At one point it had thousand of members including more than a few very well known people like George Burns
Even when I visited in 1995 it was still impressive (any building with 4 story tall stained glass windows is going to be impressive) but you could see that they really weren't able to maintain the place. By then they only used the main area a few times a year and even then only a few rows were occupied. - But they still had a picture of my great grandpa, and the people who ran the place on the wall.
In 2006 after years of neglect the roof collapsed and the building was torn down. I regret not stealing the picture when I visited.
 
Recently (January) this happened to a church in New London CT. Structural deterioration of the steeple led to collapse of the entire roof.

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The now-small congregation doesn't have enough money or insurance to cover reconstruction, so the area will be cleared by the City, and the congregation will move to some other venue.

Fortunately a "church" is people, not bricks. But it's sure sad to see a beautiful building, which holds so many personal memories, collapse and disappear.

Tom M.
 
The church I grew up in, in rural Ohio is shrinking and having money issues. From the last couple times I was around there, mostly an older congregation anymore since overall participation in organized religion is getting smaller. Their building is over 100yo too and I wonder if it'll survive into the future.
 
Before I retired probably 80% of my work was helping congregations make decisions about their future. All denominations (with a couple of tiny exceptions) are declining. In many cases it was actually good news if their building collapsed as it forced them to make a decision they had likely put off for decades - it also meant that people weren't forced to be reminded daily of what they used to be. (My first congregations in rural Ontario - two point charge - two churches one minister - had been a three point charge. The third closed and sold their church for the astronomical sum of $800 (in 1967) the new owner promptly used the space to park his tractor and for the next 40 years it was a source of pain that their beloved church was an implement shed. It is now a cottage so happier outcome.)

Many former churches end up as restaurants (not so bad) or bars or even strip clubs (much worse) though in cities where 10 years ago all old churches were being turned into condos, now they are being sold again to other churches because the zoning is worth more than the building and cities are increasingly reluctant to zone for churches any more.

Part of the problem ( a BIG part of the problem) is that we are only now realizing that for the church the last 1/2 of the 20th century was the anomoly in terms of every community having big churches in denomination of choice with a full time minister(s). Not only do those conditions no longer exist but the conditions that made them possible no longer exist.

Again coming back to my first churches. One was in a village of 450 people. It had 4 churches. At the time no one questioned it but looking back I wonder how we all could have missed that no village of 450 could support 4 churches any more than it could support 4 general stores or restaurants or libraries. My second point was the remains of a community (likely no more ever than a hamlet) there was also a Catholic church and a general store on the highway but literally nothing else. The people in the area drove for everything and the two churches were only 13 minutes drive apart. That model wasn't sustainable then and of course it is gone now.
 
Oh and it isn't churches it is everything - car clubs - service clubs - boeling leagues. This book is a bit out of date - 2000 but still very important (and having come through (ish) the pandemic we have witnessed and continue to witness the loss of social capital)

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wow, that got serious in a hurry :oops:
 
You're right, for small town life I grew up with it is declining and losing so many of those places I knew as a kid. On the one hand the Methodist church my parents took us to had their first female minister during the pandemic yeas, which went over better than I thought it might. Now they share a minister with 2 other small town churches and he lives in one of the other towns several miles away. I can see in another generation as my peers pass on where it will probably close, just too few and too expensive to maintain.
 
mikephillips said:
You're right, for small town life I grew up with it is declining and losing so many of those places I knew as a kid. On the one hand the Methodist church my parents took us to had their first female minister during the pandemic yeas, which went over better than I thought it might. Now they share a minister with 2 other small town churches and he lives in one of the other towns several miles away. I can see in another generation as my peers pass on where it will probably close, just too few and too expensive to maintain.
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Indeed. And this is everywhere. Fun fact. Back in the day as the west was opening up, the Methodists determined that a farmer could drive his horse and buggy 3 1/2 miles to church and 3 1/2 miles back and still be home in time for milking. Thus they planted churches every seven miles.

It boggles my mind how many churches in the last 60 have been planted with the assumption that people would walk to church - (not only distance but insufficient parking). Lyle Schaller, dead now but a genius in church life made the point that he was never able to convince any church governing body that the car was here to stay. Oh, and back when we was little parking was planned on the assumption of about 4 people per car - now it is 1 - 1 1/2 per car. It is mind boggleing to me how many couples I know that go to church in separate cars.

See back to cars - we always come back to cars. :driving::driving:


PS Tom, what did the Model T have to do with the decline of the church?
 
mikephillips said:
the Methodist church my parents took us to had their first female minister during the pandemic yeas, which went over better than I thought it might.
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Mike you can't imagine how much this made me laugh..... at least 35 years ago, my parent's synagogue interviewed a young woman rabbi. At the time, even in the conservative movement this was not so common. Anyway as part of the process was supposed to lead the Friday night services. She was a bit eh.. rotund and for some reason wore a mini-ish skirt. Up on the raised lectern area. Each time she turned around faced the ark (in front of the sanctuary) and bowed... she gave one heck of a "show" to the front rows. It did not go over any better than you might imagine and she did not get the job.
 
JP - "PS Tom, what did the Model T have to do with the decline of the church?"

I could only guess, but the Model T made "weekend getaways" possible for millions of people. Maybe getting away to church wasn't one of the destinations.

Yisroel, the mini-skirt event may be an example of religious leaders not exactly being sensitive to their (potential) congregations. Back in college I was a church organist to earn some weekend dollars. If the vestry didn't like the priest's choice of hymns, they'd just unplug the organ speakers during communion. Nothing like a mature congregation, eh ...? The "hit you in the gut" moment, was when the priest's son, who had Downs Syndrome, stood up, turned around to face the congregations, and said "what kind of people are you?"

Main thing - the church is the people, not the building. I wonder if religion will return to small groups meeting in homes, and not be a "two hours on the weekend" mega-church experience of being told what to do.

Oh, the stories we could all tell.
 
NutmegCT said:
JP - "PS Tom, what did the Model T have to do with the decline of the church?"

I could only guess, but the Model T made "weekend getaways" possible for millions of people. Maybe getting away to church wasn't one of the destinations.
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Exactly right, but, more specifically because people could go for a drive (and leave town) they didn't go to grandma's house for supper and because they didn't go to grandma's, grandma didn't ask the kids what they learned in Sunday School. So, without grandma to ask it made it a lot easier to skip church without accountability.

Church is most definitely the people and there is already a movement to meeting in homes instead of buildings. Will be interesting to see how it plays over the long term. In the New Testament the early house churches (most no larger than 20 or so if that) were made up of the full strata of society - slaves/ owners/ women (at least early in leaderaship) etc. etc. My biggest concern with house churches now is that they are people who like each other and don't have to deal with the messiness and complexity of people who are different. We will see.

Love the 'flashing' story - so many different 'moments' out there. :cheers:
 
I still get over there periodically and get the church newsletter to keep up with childhood friends. The lady minister seemed like a nice person from what little I knew her, but I wouldn't have wanted to marry her. When she retired a year or so ago, was on husband #5. She had the bad luck of picking guys who 3-4 years later would have cancer or some other serious aliment. Felt sorry for her with a life that outside church seemed to revolve around illness care.
 
mikephillips said:
I still get over there periodically and get the church newsletter to keep up with childhood friends. The lady minister seemed like a nice person from what little I knew her, but I wouldn't have wanted to marry her. When she retired a year or so ago, was on husband #5. She had the bad luck of picking guys who 3-4 years later would have cancer or some other serious aliment. Felt sorry for her with a life that outside church seemed to revolve around illness care.
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Yikes!
 
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