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Changing points makes me want to change cars...

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V

VanHalenMan

Senior Member
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I installed a new cap rotor condenser and new points last night...


now the car won't start

Am I missing something, it was all very straight forward...

even if they were gapped bad it would start... it would just run junky.

I'm so un informed, this is what I get for buying this car thinking I could keep up with it...

Now nothing works, and I can't even drive it.


Anyone want to help me out before I put it in auto trader.

I can't take it anymore.
 
Also try replacing the old rotor cap. There have been a few bad ones around - I had a couple.
Make sure you lead to the coil was not inadvertently disconnected - this happen to me once.
 
Also recheck that you installed the points right; that the wire and plastic insulators are on correctly. If not right it will not run, ie not spark.
 
Hope you got the little insulator (plastic) washer thingies in the right places when you installed the points.
If you don't get it all in the right place/order then the points will be constantly grounded.
Disconnect the -ve or CB wire from the coil, check by using a multimeter from the wire you just pulled off to the ground while manualy opening the points, you should see the resistance go from full short (no resistance) to full open as you do this. If it doesn't start looking at those insulating washers.
 
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even if they were gapped bad it would start... it would just run junky.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sort of. if they were gapped too wide and never close then it would not fire the plugs. Same goes if they are gapped to narrow and never open, that would never fire the plugs.

I have had a set of points came with some sort of "protectant" on the point surface. The problem was this was also an electrical insulator and as such the points never made electrical contact. The result was the engine would not start.

Try and check that the points are making and breaking contact. A fast way to do this is to remove the dizzy cap and with the ignition on (and assuming the engine is at a place in the rotation that the cam for the points is at the flat spot) open and close the points by hand. You should see a slight spark at the points themselves when you open the points. This will confirm the points are making and breaking the electrical connection as they should. If this is not the case then you will need to look into some of the items suggested such as the plastic piece or the protectant, or too wide/narrow a gap etc. If you do get the spark, then you should hunt down the high voltage line and check the rotor button and that the dizzy cap was not put back on backwards (can that be done??)
 
VHMan, Don't change cars change to a Pertronix Electronic ignition and"Never Change Points Again"---Fwiw---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif
 
I'd have to agree with Keoke, I switched to pertronix last year, and I'm very happy.
 
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VHMan, Don't change cars change to a Pertronix Electronic ignition and"Never Change Points Again"---Fwiw---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Then when it won't fire, you *really* won't know what the problem is! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
 
My thoughts were similar to those of AltaKnight. Make sure the points have the necessary insulators. While there, look carefully at the place the condenser wire attaches. I had a friend with a Lucas 45D4 dizzy who accidentally positioned the forked terminal of the condenser such that it was always touching ground. This in effect shorted out the points.

As others have said, with the ignition switch on and the dizzy cap removed you should be able to use a screwdriver to lift the points arm off the dizzy cam and see a small spark across the points. (Assuming the points were closed to start with!)
 
[ QUOTE ]

VHMan, Don't change cars change to a Pertronix Electronic ignition and"Never Change Points Again"---Fwiw---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer points to pertronix for the TR3/4 engines. I just like being able to know what it up where ever I am. And I have never had a problem with points. If the pertronix packs it in you are dead in the water (unless you carry the old points and a few tools with you)

One thing I would like to know (as a friend of mine with a pertronix equipped TR3 would like me to set his timing) is how to set the timing with a pertronix. The TR3/4 only has static timing specs and you can't do that with a pertronix (unless I am missing something). If someone can explain how to time the pertronix I would love to hear it.
 
Re: Changing points makes me want to change cars..

Hi Adrio,
If you are "really" worried about the Pertronix failing, it is much easier to carry a spare module & replace it than to reinstall points, condenser, terminal block, & wiring changes. Not all that expensive & could save a lot of roadside messing around. A failed unit can easily be determined by the same procedures listed below.

With all engines, the most important controlling number is the maximum advance at high rpm. Let the rest of the advance numbers, including idle, fall where they may.

Additional timing marks can be put on the pulley as needed. Measure or calculate the circumference & divide it by 360 degrees. This will give the pulley circumferential distance per degree of rotation. I would mark the pulley at 5 or 10 degree intervals up to 40 degrees. A fine brush with yellow paint works well. I actually put small notches in the pulley when it was acessible.

The Pertronix can be timed at zero speed. Put a DC meter across the coil primary terminals. Slowly rotate the engine in the forward direction (approach firing) until the meter changes. At the precise firing time in the rotation, the meter will change. Observe the timing marks & advance or retard the distributor as needed. The engine can easily be rotated (bumped) small amounts by putting the transmission in top gear & rotating a front wheel. Lot more leverage & precision than pushing on the car.

Recheck by backing up the engine about 40 to 70 degrees (necessary in order to RESET the electronics & to remove mechanical slack in the distributor drive), rotate the engine forward & watch the meter as the engine approaches the desired timing mark, the meter will change at the firing point.

Do not leave the ignition on with the engine not running for extended periods of time. It will overheat the Pertronix module. About the only thing that will damage the unit, other than wrong connections.

As a final check, with a timing light connected, vacuum advance/retard disconnected, check for somewhere around 32 to 38 degrees advance at 4500 rpm. This number may vary with fuel quality & engine tune & can be set as needed. Obviously you don't want ping. In any case, going over 38 degrees will not improve things & may cause silent detonation.You won't hear ping, but damage is still being done.

Vacuum advance may cause more than this amount of advance, but it only occurs when the engine is partially loaded & is not detrimental.
D
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

VHMan, Don't change cars change to a Pertronix Electronic ignition and"Never Change Points Again"---Fwiw---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif [/quo


I then when it won't fire, you *really* won't know what the problem is! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Of course you will know what the problem is ; It "won't fire"---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'd have to agree with Keoke, I switched to pertronix last year, and I'm very happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Stinky, Do you use a timing litght to set the timing on your car? If so what is The setting in Deg That You Use.---Keoke-----OK that sounds about right for the "6" I would have guessed 35 Deg Thanks. If I can just get a reliable check on the 4 Clyn cars we can set them up with a timing light too.
 
Adrio, do you have a variable timing light???---Keoke

Shucks, I need timing light data on a 4 Clyn car.Send that thing back for a replacement, it should not act up like that!
 
Yes I have a variable timing light. I just got it a few months ago but I am not the happiest with it. I am wondering if the hot coil of my TR4 is too much for it or if it is bad. The variable part does not seem to make much difference, nor does which plug wire I clip the inductive pick up on. I just use my old faithfull non inductive light to set the timing on my cars.
 
Keoke,
Yes I use a Timing light. I had to upgrade to an "Advance Timing Light." I set the Dial to 40° and hold the light on the timing mark and reach over and rev the engine to about 3,000 rpm,...or atleast to the point where the timing advance peaks. That has worked great for me. No pinging. Easy to check.

I got a Sears Craftsman Advance Timing Light for $69 on sale.
 
I'm getting the points from Victoria British, and I don't even have to wait since I can go out on my lunch break and grab them (Lucky meee, I live work near Lenexa, KS)


I'm guessing there will be instructions in the box, so that will be easy... I'm just worried about after, when I start up the beast... what sort of adjustments will need to be made and how do I do so?

I know the timing will be out of whack... what to do?

Help!
 
If it won't start due to timing, just advance it till it hits against compression. Then back it off till it starts and runs. From there you can set the timing. I know thats not a precise way to do it but it works.
 
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