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Car restoration fees

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Have a guy in town who wants me to finish the restoration of his 1958 TR3. He have most of the parts and most of the cleaning, rebuilding and painting is already completed. It will need assembly, wiring, interior, and basic alignm,ent and finishing.
Would you guys have any idea on what fee to charge for this work? I just completed mine and he was very impressed with the work so he decided to pay me instead of doing it.
Any ideas would be a great help at least I would have a starting place.
 
My two cents' worth, Larry:

Do it as a pre-arranged per-hour charge. Your prior experience and knowledge count. There's no "flat-rate" book on the planet to predict what you'll run into on anything older than a Ford Taurus. What you'll be doing would be classed as Craftsmanship, not "wrenching". Skilled. Each and every one of these old lumps is a unique entity by this time, no two alike. If you undervalue your time, you lose. Overvalue it and he'll feel as if he's had the shaft. That's why the suggestion of a pre-work, agreed upon hourly rate. Be honest and be fair with eachother. Survey the car well ahead of time, too. It'll give you a feel for the level of competence of the work already done (so you know if there's anything needing RE-done). Once you TOUCH it, it's your name on it.

I did this as my primary method of earning bean money for years. From ground-up resto's to L.O.F. work, mostly on pre-smog "Euro-trash" and valued my time by averaging the hourly rates of various local dealership rates. But if a resto assembly meant spending three hours chasing threads for fasteners it was billed. Head scratching and re-doing an assembly twice due to my own ignorance was not...

Hope that gives you SOME help. And don't be afraid to say "no" as well if it seems you can't agree. See above: "You TOUCHED it" comment.
 
I was just talking to a guy who has worked in the past as a Ferrari mechanic and as a heavy & highway equipment mechanic. Not surprisingly his $$$/hour charge was much higher when working on Ferraris... but i thought the rationale was interesting.

No it's not just because Ferrari owners expect/can afford to pay a lot more... it's because of the potential liability if he screws up. A scratch on the paint of a Catapillar earth mover is of no concern but do that on someone's Ferrari and it could cost you thousands to make ir right.

Not an answer for you but just a caution to build something into your price to cover your exposure when working on someone else's car.
 
Thanks for your comment. I agree on everthing you said.
I think the main reason to consider this project is that I just finished my groud up resto and it would be like doing the work twice. So the knowledge is fresh and the part availability is also known
 
George attends another good issue. The time it takes to plan out and protect for a job. There's a thread about "Wheeler Dealer" here (MG Forum) and as the "wrench" is fussing an MGB together after a fresh respray there is NO evidence of fender protection. No covering of any sort other than on install of the bonnet. His cavalier install of the rear bumper made me cringe... I just KNOW he chipped/nicked paint on that job. GAH.
 
My advice.

If you loved doing yours, just help him out. If you charge him, you will forever own that car.

Just my advice.
 
This is interesting and should be thought out from all angles. This is a litegious world.
Car owner should have some idea of final cost ( range ) to have an idea of if he has the funds to complete, yet the hourly wage idea is best for you. You need some formula to meet both parties expectations.
He needs to know final cost could exceed car value.
As Stirkle mentioned, you do not want to have unrealistic expectations for warranty type work, future repairs, and adjustments to his potentially unrealistic expectations.
You may want to calculate some approximation of hours, parts costs, etc. that went into your car, multipy the hours your spent vs. the condition of his car, to get some feel for high to low range. Put it all in writing and for a contract.
 
Stirkle said:
My advice.

If you loved doing yours, just help him out. If you charge him, you will forever own that car.

Just my advice.
Click to expand...

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif I don't know anybody that has worked on cars that has not gotten into these situations including myself more than once. Usually the larger the project the more painful the lesson.
 
roofman said:
....
He needs to know final cost could exceed car value.
...
Click to expand...

Should read, "He needs to know final cost WILL probably exceed car value. "

Also, as stated, This is a litigious world. You should have a written agreement covering everything, including a statement of limited warranty. Also, an agreement on a payment schedule for work done. Never, never agree to payment upon completion. And look into what is involved to obtain a mechanics lien.

While I like to think people can be trusted, these deals sometimes go south.
 
Most repair shops hourly rate begins at $80. If you charge $50 for specialty work (which it is), then he will get a bargain. If he did his work properly, then it will entail less hours for you to charge. If he screwed up, he will pay for it with more hours.

But don't expect that he won't keep asking about "other" things. Just like a pro-shop, help with advice, but also offer to do more work (for more money.) Keep a professional relationship and it will work out.

Agree with suggestion to spell out on paper contract what is expected and have him sign before beginning any work. If you are not a llc, then you are personally liable and you could lose you house. Just look at a work order from your newer car from the repair shop (that you signed) and use their verbage.
 
I am lucky enough to get to do this for a living. There are some things you can estimate, and some you cannot. I try to give a time range, and therefore a cost range, but it is a range. I cannot forsee all the issues involved, and neither can anyone else.I find that it is good to bill out as "projects" are done. This helps to establish value for time spent.All restorations will far exceed the value of the car being restored. All of our beloved LBCs were built in an era of expensive parts and cheap labor. That is no longer the case. I like the idea of having the owner work along with you. What a great way to build a friendship, as well as justify what money that it takes. Have fun.
 
This guy has his car for sale because he doesn't have time to restore it. It is mostly an asseble the car project. He has already gotton the parts painted, the frame dipped and coated, the engine built, and some other stuff.
He said he would hold on to the car if I decided to finish it. I know this person from the past and his wife worked with my wife and they are friends.
Think this would be a good winter time burner and perhaps help me generate enough money to complete mine.
 
I charged $25.00 per hour for labor. All parts that I needed and the time and materials for painting etc. were added. The owner paid me at the end of each month. It was a total body off restoration.
 

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You work too cheap.
 
roofman said:
You work too cheap.
Click to expand...

Let's see, no income tax, no SS tax, no state tax, no Medicare tax, no union dues, no retirement contribution, probably the equivalent of $40-45/ hour.
 
To me the price of labor depends on if it's your business or your just a hobbiest.
I am pretty familiar with car restorations and have a lot of nice tools but it is a hobby. My full time job pays the bills so I am not in need of charging an unfair amount.

I think I'll talk to the guy, discuss the fees and liability. Then make an agreement and take on the job.
 
roofman said:
You work too cheap.
Click to expand...

He may be really, really slow. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif



On a serious note, how strong is your friendship. IMHO, it is better to give such a job to someone like Jesse or Don who either do this for a living or a serious, money-making hobby.
Just be careful, something like this can either strengthen a friendship or other.
 
I have no advice for you what so ever. After 40 yrs part/full time doing this stuff I have no idea what I'm doing. OK ,I have one bit of advice, Andrew Mace is one sharp guy,but he is WRONG about insisting the guy help you. If the guy wants to show up and piddle around ...fine. If you insist he be there to help, your world will come to an end.
 
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