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Camshaft

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dancrim

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My 65 BJ8 has a lifter tick in it. I replaced the tappets, checked pushrods and adjusted several times. Always the same tick #3 from front. I got rid of most of the sound by adjusting it .004 tighter. At 50,000 miles do I have to replace the cam berrings if I go with a new cam. I don't
have a line reamer. Also if I am going to this trouble, any suggestions on cams? Maybe a tad more perfortmance? I also
heard I could remove the old cam by lifting the motor and not taking it out. HELP
 
Maybe you can pull it out through the grill is what they mean. You are going to have to check the rocker shaft and rocker bushings also. Denis Welch has some nice cam and lifter sets. Cam bearings should be fine, in 40 years plus of rebuilding it is rare to see enough wear to cause a problem. Check adjuster balls and push rods also. Good luck ! :cheers:
 
If your lifter tips look like these (rare) then accurate adjustment is just about impossible__you certainly can't adjust them with a flat feeler gauge.

IMG_4035.sized.jpg


IMG_4040.sized.jpg


As "Quick" says, putting a new cam in existing bearings will pose no problem.
(btw, "quick cash" & TLMD arrived__thanks :smile: )
 
Switched pushrod positions, figured since I installed new tappets it didn't matter. Rocker surfaces are OK. Also checked
rocker shaft bushings. Tappet is not sticky in #3 bore. It's the cam. Before I panic, I plan on dropping the oil pan and see if I can get a micrometer on #3 lobe, or feel anything. Never replaced a camshaft. Any ideas would be a big help.
 
dancrim said:
My 65 BJ8 has a lifter tick in it. I replaced the tappets, checked pushrods and adjusted several times. Always the same tick #3 from front. I got rid of most of the sound by adjusting it .004 tighter. At 50,000 miles do I have to replace the cam berrings if I go with a new cam. I don't
have a line reamer. Also if I am going to this trouble, any suggestions on cams? Maybe a tad more perfortmance? I also
heard I could remove the old cam by lifting the motor and not taking it out. HELP
Click to expand...
I had what I thought was a "lifter" ticking noise for several years on my BJ8. It wasn't until the piston area between the top ring and the top of the piston "let go" did I finally find where my "lifter ticking" sound was coming from(it was finally making a very loud noise at that point).
A small part of the #6 piston broke off and was being pounded into the top of the piston by a valve creating the "ticking" sound. Compression was normal!! The ticking sound sounded like it was coming from #1 piston when it was actually coming from #6 piston.
Patrick
 
Dan, If you know it is the cam don't waste your time pulling the pan. Pull the radiator and timing cover instead. Our Man Randy will have detailed photos for you and I mean detailed ! Good luck, Quick :hammer:
 
Dan, If you are going to change the camshaft with the engine in the car, you must loosen the motor mounts and jack up the front of the engine high enough so you can get a socket on the crankshaft nut. Then you can pull off the damper and then the timing chain cover. You may have to loosen the throttle linkage to avoid binding and breakage. Of course the radiator and grill are already out.
You will have to drop the oil pan and remove the oil pump so the oil pump drive shaft can drop down (the camshaft drives the oil pump). Do not loose the special hardened thrust washer on the end of the driveshaft. You may not even realize it is there because the oil will make it stick and look like it is part of the driveshaft. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
You will have to remove the crank and cam sprockets and chain all in one operation. Then remove the cam thrust plate.
You must remove the rocker shaft and all of the pushrods and all of the lifters before you can move the cam forward.
Be careful to slide out the cam without dinging up the cam bearings. The way I do it is to use a 18" plus length of steel pipe that slips over the snout of the cam. This way you have enough leverage that you can gently lift and pull the cam forward and out of the block without damaging the cam bearings.
 
Why not just remove the head first and take a peek? With a flashlight you should be able to see if the cam is damaged. While the head is off you can also check for other conditions as was mentioned before. Also, maybe switch rockers around. You shouldn't have to ever mis-adjust a tappet to eliminate a noise. Just my opinion.
 
Thanks BoyRacer, good advice that I will take. How hard will it be to break the
crankshaft nut? Never did this job, why is the special thrust washer important
to not disturb? Thanks, Dan
 
dancrim said:
Thanks BoyRacer, good advice that I will take. How hard will it be to break the
crankshaft nut? Never did this job, why is the special thrust washer important
to not disturb? Thanks, Dan
Click to expand...
Ideally, you'll have an assistant inside the car, STANDING on the brakes, while the car is in Reverse or 1st gear with the handbrake pulled up as hard as possible. I've even had to adjust the rear brakes to essentially LOCKED ON.

I suppose you could use an impact, but that idea scares me, so I don't recommend it.

The washer is special, in that you bend it over, to keep the nut from backing off (laughable, considering the effort required to loosen it__may God help you, if it was assemble with red Loctite...).

BIG SOCKET:

dampener_socket.JPG
 
Thanks Greg for the parts page illustration.
That little thrust washer (#90) is a $20 replacement part if you lose it. It is placed onto the driving spindle and it is easily overlooked as motor oil makes it stick to the spindle. It slips over the tit on that "steel" drive-shaft spindle that goes into the hole in the block and it is the contact point between the spindle and your "cast iron" engine block. It looks like a slightly thicker 7/16th (or maybe 3/8") washer - only a bit shinier. Because it sticks to the spindle it is very easy to not even realize that it is there. And, at some point it then falls off and can become lost. It is very important to make sure it is installed when you put things back together. If not, your steel oil pump driving spindle will eventually grind itself into the block.
 
GregW said:
Randy Forbes said:
The washer is special, in that you bend it over, to keep the nut from backing off
Click to expand...
Hey Randy,
I think Mr Racer was talking about the washer on the oil pump spindle. #90 HERE
Click to expand...
LOL! Yes, I knew that when I read Richard's post (and agree with his predictions).

When I was describing removing the crankshaft nut, my mind was on the locktab/washer. Nobody else had mentioned flattening it out, though it would stand little chance against the effort required to loosen the nut..
 
Is the nut right hand thread? Wan't to be sure before using a long breaker bar or impact if that fails. Super tight nuts that size can fool you as to direction.
 
dancrim said:
Is the nut right hand thread? Wan't to be sure before using a long breaker bar or impact if that fails. Super tight nuts that size can fool you as to direction.
Click to expand...
Yes, righty-tighty, lefty-loosey :wink:
 
Dan,
My experience pales in comparison to this learned panel, but your ticking noises are painfully familiar, and very fresh in my mind. Curious if you have run the engine with the rocker cover off after tweaking your adjustments. I had a very similar condition; would adjust a couple of .000's - noise gone. After a few trips it slowly reappeared. Took VERY careful observation with the cover off to realize I had a rocker that was not oiling at the rocker/pushrod ball socket (at the same rate as the others). When hot and at speed, I thnk it was running almost dry and very slowly eroding the joint. In the process, I found that the oil feed pipe was also spewing oil at the union with the rocker tower, which was probably adding to the condition. (Thanks to a tip from this group)..
Replaced with a nice rebuilt rocker shaft assy. Worth every penny.
Just a thought. Good luck.
Bill
 
Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmm. I may just take off the cover again and double check for oil at the pushrod. I thought I had done that. It still seems odd that #3 is ticking. Nice tip, I really don't want to pull the camshaft.
 
dancrim said:
Things that make you go Hmmmmmmmm. I may just take off the cover again and double check for oil at the pushrod. I thought I had done that. It still seems odd that #3 is ticking. Nice tip, I really don't want to pull the camshaft.
Click to expand...
You might want to borescope the top of #3 piston before tearing anything apart. Look for pieces of piston ring "beaten" into the top of the piston.
Patrick
 
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