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Cam belt set up for A-series

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Any of you that have spent time looking around on the Mini Mania or similar A-series performance websites have probably noticed they sell a cam belt set up that repalces the timing chain and traditional cover. I'm currently working on a customer's Swiftune Road Rocket 1275 ( bored out to 1380) it has alot of bling and go fast goodies on it, one being the cam belt set-up. I never had any experience with the cam belt set up because they were deemed illegal in SCCA racing long ago, and most street guys don't won't spend the bucks this thing cost, so this is my first run in with this set-up. Ok with that being said, save your money this thing is junk. This Swiftune RR 1380 motor has a unique history, it was bought about 10 years ago by a guy to use na car he was restoring that he never ended up restoring, so my customer ended up buying it form him. Just to be on the safe side, he wanted to peek inside the motor, it need a oil pan anyway, because the one on it was worn form dragging it around on the floor of the garage. While everyhting looked good inside the motor, dyno time only, the customer wanted the horrid red paint Swiftune used on this motor to disappear, and wanted it painted big Healey engine met. green, so in order to do this properly we needed to remover the front and rear engne plates, than goodness we did! THis cheesy timing belt deal is held together with one not properly installed dial pin, that form dyno run tim only had almost sheared itself, it it had failed, the it would have been game-over for this motor. Upon inspection I found the 5/16 dial pin was allowing aout 20 degrees of cam timing slop, so we first redrilled everyhting for a 3/8th dial pin, but at the end of the day I just could get past the single hap-hazardly dial pin being the only thing that hold this unit together, and even after i got the dial pin to a drive in interference, there was still some slop, less than before in this set up. Now if you know me well, I'm one picky cuss ( have to choose my words wisely here :smile: ) Bottom line nmo way was I going to procedd with this piece of junk on this motor, so I called my customer and told him we need to go for a vernier timing chain set up and a regular timing cover and that this timing belt set up was going to be a expensive paper weight. I've got to build a A+ series Mini engine, and this guy has brought me the saem thing which now I will not use on his motor as well. In closaing i wrote this post so anyone out there with deep pockets looking at the timing belt set up , to quit looking at this over ppriced piece of garbage, and look at spending their money on wiser things.

Over all impression of the Swiftune motor, being they are so famous in the UK, it's a nice motor, but I would never want to spend big bucks with them, the ports in the head are way too smooth. Also a big cost on this engine was to use a late model A+ seres block whcih was originally a FWD block and convert it back to RWD use, and I think that was a total waste of money, if we can't explode regular A series blocks at 15 to 1 compression turning 9000 rpm on the race track, why on earth would a street guy need such a block. In conclusion, I see Swiftune being a decent engine builder, but more into bling, than zing, I would race aginst them anyday with one of my motors with complete confidence. I've always said it, and I'll say it here again, when it come to all-out performance for these motors the Brit builders have nothing on the US builders, especially the ones with SCCA racing experience, the SCCA full prep engine rules have let us learn more than their racing rules ever let them play with, and US bulder have benefited from this.

At the end of the day I have to thank Swiftune though, for showing me what not to do :smile:
 
I hate the idea of driving ANY cams with a belt. 907 Lotus and GTV-6 Alfas were some of the ones we made good money on because owners wouldn't LISTEN when we'd tell 'em the belt should be changed. I guess the makers could save some production money, and the racer crowd used 'em... Swiftune pro'lly figured to cash in with makin' a rig wot ~looked~ like the others. Just <span style="font-style: italic">stoopid</span> in my opinion. Earlier Alfa double row chains were stunningly stout. Chapman cheaped out with single row in the Kent based T/C's.
One place where "building in lightness" may actually have been "save some MONEY" instead. :smirk:
 
Interesting.

The other 1275 Sprite I've co-driven in enduros has this feature and I've never understood why the owner bothered to put it in.
To me, the *advantage* of belts is over long runs (like OHC setups), because they stretch less (but certain modern cars with new-style chains are now just as good in this area).
But in a pushrod 1275, with such a short run, the effort to convert to belt seems like much ado about nothing.

It's interesting to hear that the drive pin design is suspect....I would have assumed that at least they were well-designed.

The 1275 I'm building (to swap into my 1500 car) will just run the stock double row chain. At my level of "just-for-fun" vintage racing, it'll be fine. My 1500 has survived the last 5 years with a *single* row chain (I changed it once just for the heck of it, but the exisiting one was fine).

One thing overall that I've noticed in racing is that some guys will spend too much time focusing on building a very high horsepower engine and not enough time on the chassis or setting up the car or even learning how to really drive.
 
In defense of Swiftune, the belt drive wasn't their design was it?

The belt drive kits that have been around for years have a reputation for (what I consider) very short belt life. I've never understood the attraction of them on the A-series. The one time I saw one up close and personal at VIR was on a racing Mini that was out of commission... because the belt broke and they didn't bring a spare.

Hap, this isn't the Maestro engine you posted pictures of in the Mini forum is it? I seem to remember that block still had what looked like a normal front plate and a generator on it.
 
There are a variety of Gilmer belt timing sets out in the market, can you post a picture of the Swiftune one?
Thanks,
Glen
 
DrEntropy said:
One place where "building in lightness" may actually have been "save some MONEY" instead. :smirk:

I think Chapman was obsessed with saving pounds.........both kinds
 
dklawson said:
Hap, this isn't the Maestro engine you posted pictures of in the Mini forum is it? I seem to remember that block still had what looked like a normal front plate and a generator on it.

Yep, that's it, and yes it has a normal front plate, the cover for the belt system bolts on just like a timing cvover, it has two seals, one at the cam pulley, and one at the crank to seal the cover dry, Oh by the way, both of them had torm seal lips on them upon disassembly. ASI mentioned above the cover bolt on like a normal timing cover, but the two seals render the belt and pulley area dry during operation. I got a high performance Mini engine to do in the future and the guys one of this set ( that I now won't let him use :smile: ) The Mini customer's set up is nearly the same exact set up, but the cover has a different brand name on it.

I don't blame Swiftune for this set up, just fiquired they had used enough of them to know not to.
 
Glen_B said:
There are a variety of Gilmer belt timing sets out in the market, can you post a picture of the Swiftune one?
Thanks,
Glen

Yeak, I'll try to take a picture of both of them tommorow, wanna buy em, I got a rear seal kit for sale too :smile:
 
I wanted the ability to change the cam timing easily and put on a Gilmer belt from APT that came from Australia if I recall. The pin is a large solid steel one with a small tapped hole for extraction. Looks to be overkill for strength. The lip seals are still dry and timing is precise and set to exactly what the cam grinder wanted. Happy boy so far after three years.

Glen
 
I tried one of those belt systems years ago and it JUNK!

Pat
 
Glen_B said:
I wanted the ability to change the cam timing easily and put on a Gilmer belt from APT that came from Australia if I recall. The pin is a large solid steel one with a small tapped hole for extraction. Looks to be overkill for strength. The lip seals are still dry and timing is precise and set to exactly what the cam grinder wanted. Happy boy so far after three years.

Glen
Glad to hear you are happy with the APT Gilmer belt drive since I have one from them too. Only have dyno time on the engine so far.
 
Westfield_XI said:
Glen_B said:
I wanted the ability to change the cam timing easily and put on a Gilmer belt from APT that came from Australia if I recall. The pin is a large solid steel one with a small tapped hole for extraction. Looks to be overkill for strength. The lip seals are still dry and timing is precise and set to exactly what the cam grinder wanted. Happy boy so far after three years.

Glen
Glad to hear you are happy with the APT Gilmer belt drive since I have one from them too. Only have dyno time on the engine so far.
Lets see some pictures of that westfield.
 
Ok, you guys wanted pictures, the first picture is the one that was on Mike's engine, that had almost sheared the dial pin in the Swiftune 1380, notice it has a two piece front cover to allow you to change cam timing. The second picture is the one Eric sent me to go ona got rod Mini engine, it has a solid front cover, so no easy cam timing changes, I also noticed he didn't have the bottom crank belt pulley in his box, he bought it off Ebay, unless he has the crank pulley in his stuff at home, this was even more money wasted. I doubt this one on his engine, even if he has the pulley. The dial pin looks to fit snug on this one, so who knows maybe the other one was just machine sloppy. They made a adjustable timng timing chain kit that used dial pins instead of the vernier style with the bolt, that slide for adjustment, I know I've heard the dial pin unit were removed form the market at most vendors because of failure, while the only Kent or Rollmaster vernier failure I ever saw was user error, I used the Kentand Rollmaster verniers for over 20 years without a failure, I always after degreeing the cam, remover each bolt one at a time, clean the thread and locktitie them, never had a problem, recommend both the Kent and Rollmaster verniers.
 

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