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Bugeye values

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smaceng

smaceng

Jedi Knight
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I think that the Bugeye has finally started to appreciate to a new level.
The really great bugeyes are now in the 20K plus range, which is new.
If you take a look at the 50-60s hot rods, they are in the 40 to $60 K range.
My guess, if the current trend continues, that a BE today worth 20K will be worth 30 in 10 years.
What do others think?
The BE is an unusual beast.......it has no trunk, it has funny bugeye headlights, it has no door handles, it has a cave which is beyond using, it is just fun to look at. Also, everyone I have ever talked to about my ex-BE....said, I have nothing but great memories of this car, as an owner, as a passenger, as an admirer.
Everyone likes a BE.....and it is fun to drive.
My ex-BE was great.....rev to redline, and it wanted to keep on going.....all balanced and vibration free.
I have had a ton of great sports cars, Big AH, MGA, Alfa Spider, Porsche 911, Miata, but somehow the BE has that special spot in my heart.
What do other think?
Scott in CA CIMG0451P1a.JPG
I do not think my TR6 will ever, ever approach the interest my BE did!!!
 
Scott you are absolutely correct. BE values hit a peak with the coming of top down driving weather and have fallen back or the cars on the market aren't as good as what's been out last month. iirc 2 years ago a nice BE would command 10-12 and that same car is now 20k +. At the same time the people buying LBC'c are gray hairs. We're the ones driving values. The 40 Y.o's will be looking at Japanese or German 20 years from now. I do believe BE's will continue to appreciate in value and your TR-6 while comfy and fun to drive will never get the thumbs up gestures and smiles that your BE did. And no Bill doesn't want to sell your old car back to you. He's having too much fun!
 
I think we're also seeing the Square Sprites and Midgets trying to ride the BE's coattails as the market appreciates as even in the 7 or 8 months that I've been an LBC owner, I've seen the ask prices crossing the 10k barrier for these cars (whether they get the ask is a different story). From a practical point of view, the later Sprites, particularly the Mark IV has a lot to offer: Folding convertible top, roll up windows, front disc brakes, the bigger 1275 motor. They lack, however, the iconic charm of the BE.

To me, the LBC is the best kept secret in the vintage car world: Fun to drive, reasonably affordable, easy to work on, great aftermarket parts availability and they don't completely drain your wallet when you take them to a gas station.
 
It was bound to happen. The TR3 has started to move up as well, and for very similar reasons I think. These cars just look different than anything made since, while still being reasonable to drive in modern traffic (with a few upgrades in the case of the Bugeye). As the prices of other cars get stratospheric (think Porsche 356 or early 911) the folks with resources start to look at other options, and a Bugeye is a visual standout. It does help as well that Spridget owners have not tended to demand perfect originality, so the common Bugeye modifications (1275, front discs) aren't seen as a negative.

As for the generational thing, using the common idea that we lust after the cars that were hot when we were in high school I should be interested in cars of the late 1980s (got my drivers license in 1989). While there are some things from then that I do like, their general plastic-ness is a turn off for me -- though there are a few Japanese cars from the period) that I wouldn't mind playing with. The bumper regulations that came in 1974 really marked a hard line in the classic car world. There are very neat cars made afterwards, but pre '74 (and even more so pre '68) cars have some special design features that are impossible today, and a simplicity that makes home maintenance much more possible.

I am living proof of the draw that a Bugeye can have, even for someone young(er/ish). When I sold the Tunebug in favor of the RHD MGB, I really figured I was done with Sprites. Then Penny came along and I just couldn't resist the pull -- even though the MGB is a far better car for what I do. Didn't matter. I'll spend a silly amount of money by the time I'm all finished up with Penny's restoration, and I'm fine with that. Would never have spent that sort of money on the MGB, and when I realized that difference I sold the B.
 
drooartz said:
It does help as well that Spridget owners have not tended to demand perfect originality, so the common Bugeye modifications (1275, front discs) aren't seen as a negative.

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Click to expand...


...Yet... It the nature of the game, the rare ones will be the original ones as everyone is o.k with mods now. The original ones are the ones that will bring the most money. It happens to everything in every category, it's just a matter of time.
 
I have a slightly different view. I suspect this is more of a bubble that will burst. Some things to consider:

1. You're seeing cars that cost 30K+ to restore sell for loss when they bring whatever number around $20K

2. At the same time you're seeing cars that are NEVER going to be restored sell for too much money to people who are uninformed and not necessarily that devoted to the marque. They will eventually tire and sell at a loss.

3. I love the Bugeye but, even if you make it go/stop like a race car, it's tiny. At the same time every other car on the road is bigger and bigger. Look at a Bugeye next to Honda Fit or a new Fiat 500. Now look at it next to an F-350 super duty... This is not an incidental point. I suspect the truth about the VAST majority of running/restored Sprites is that they are rarely driven because the owners are terrified once they've experienced modern traffic from the seat of a Sprite. So if it costs that much money and you're scared to drive it for fear of being crushed...Are you really going to keep it forever, or would you be inclined to sell it and get something else? (even if it has a special place in your heart)

4. The generational considerations are the most important. Boomers and Gen-Xers share music and car culture. The next generation "Y", much less so. I'm sure there are some people from that generation who like LBC's but most of the "car guys" from that generation are into cars that GenXer's would never consider cool. Those born from 2000 on, forget it. They are growing up in a totally different world with a totally different American culture that has no connection to 1950's sports cars.

5. Combine that fact that the younger people have different interests and the sad fact that the Boomers are about to start dying off in droves (sorry guys) AND the fact that the Boomers are the last generation that's going to have any sort of disposable income, leads me to a different conclusion. In the next 5 years the market is going to see a glut of very nice Bugeyes for sale by people who need money.
 
I am almost at a loss for words. Yesterday I went for a nice ride out into the hills of the back country with a friend. Stopped for gas and a guy said nice Bugeye and that he used to have one. I told him everyone used to have one. I don't know how many times someone has said that to me. These cars over the years must have changed ownership many many times to have that many people out there say they used to own one. The thing is to be able to own one know. On our ride yesterday we decided to make a U turn and head back and so we pulled off the road to let the car behind us pass so we could turn around. Instead of passing us, the car stopped along side of us in the middle of the road and started asking all kinds of questions about the Bugeye. We had to point out to them that a car was coming up the road and that they had better move on.
Another question I get a lot is did I restore the car. My answer is no but the person who did restore it really knew what he was doing. I have thought about asking Scott to Adopt me informally so I could say it was a family affair.
I personally will never know what this fine specimen of a Bugeye would bring on the market down the road because I will never be the one selling it. I have even thought about if I get to old to drive it, hiring a person to drive it for me to take me for rides. I have three Grandsons so maybe one or all three will be that person driving me around.
But that time hopefully is far into the future. I plan on attending a lot of car shows and hopefully winning some nice awards with 60 FROG.
Just like they have the Oskers,Emmys Toni, and Obie awards in Theater TV and the Movies. I plan to call each award this car wins a "SCOTTY AWARD" in respect for a job well done by Scott in restoring it. Scott you know where the car is so you are welcome to come visit it anytime you like. I promise to take good care of 60 FROG.
 
Part of the reason for the increase in prices is the BE inclusion on lists of iconic cars. Nearly every listing of cars one should have driven includes the BE. This brings attention to the car which drives up prices. I'm seeing them listed for 19,000 British lbs. quite commonly in Sports Car and Classic Magazine. We own Spridgets because they are fun to drive, and CHEAP, but they are no longer Cheap. The collectors will be buying them up and taking them off the road, as too expensive to expose to the danger of damage to the car, the paint, the interior...

Box Spridgets seem to remain at about 1/2 the price of a BE, simply because they are NOT iconic. ..

my two cents
 
Im sorry your thread slipped in ahead of mine so I wasn't able to answer a couple of your remarks.
First I am totally not afraid to drive 60 FROG anywhere. The reason I bought it from Scott was to drive the **** out of it, not just admire it sitting in the garage.
Even going to car shows I have the most fun driving to the show and driving back home. The show is secondary to the drive.
I am also not sure about younger peoples likes and dislikes. My 14 year old Grandson is very proud when I pick him up from school, and all the other kids are saying cool car Mister as he is getting into the car.
When I was at the Bugeye Barbeque last year at John Felts house his son who I guess is about 13 or 14 was so into what he and his father were doing it was beautiful. That kid knew more about Bugeyes then a lot of the people in attendance who owned one.
Also the person I sold my other Bugeye to bought it so he and his 15 year old son could enjoy it together.
 
Got it Bill. You're in a very small minority of your peer group.

The VAST MAJORITY of running/drivable Sprites are rarely driven. Pool all they people who don't care, aren't phased and actually drive them regularly and it's a going to be a small percentage of owners.

The more money people think they are worth, the harder it's going to be to justify keeping a little car that isn't driven, the more good ones for sale at the same time, the better the market - for the buyer.

Another observation: Something is happening right now with cars, boats, and musical instruments. People are buying. My observation is that the people buying now are the people who have been sitting on their money for the last 6 years. They've always had it, they just didn't want to spend it because of the prevailing economic uncertainty. Those people are now feeling better about their futures and spending a little. That's the bubble. A larger percentage of people are still very uncertain about their economic future, don't have the money they did 6 years ago and probably won't be spending much any time soon. Once the TV ads start airing and the fear machines are at full speed for the next presidential election, the market will cool down. And by cool down I mean abruptly cease. Again.
 
I guess it might have to do with location, location ,location. Here in San Diego County, which by the way is as big as the state of Connecticut, every body I know who has a Sprite drives his quite regularly. There are three BE's counting mine in a small area of South San Diego County, and it is not uncommon for us to pass each other on the street.
At the Bugeye Barbeque, usually held in November, there have been as many as 20 BE's show up for the drive and picnic afterward. These BE"s are in all kinds of shape from Show class to needing a bit of restoration, but one thing they have in common is that they are driven.
I don't know what my peer group is. If it is old guys with Sprites, who love to be together and talk and do things, with and about their cars, then I don't think I am a small minority of this group.
 
I had my '69 out today, and most of the comments and waves that I got were from Millennials. In a vacuum where people don't know BEs or BEs aren't around, the square Sprites definitely have a draw. Perhaps looking a bit more "modern", they may actually become the preferred choice of younger generations?
 
It is interesting. WhenI had a 59 Bugeye back in the sixties and the the later models came out with roll up windows and a trunk I was envious and felt a little cheated, because mine didn't have those options. Now today I feel blessed that my Bugeye doesn't have those options and improvements and I am able to point out that the car has no outside door handles, no trunk and no roll up windows. I guess I have come full circle and less is better.
 
I think these things are true: 1) The best of anything from a particular era will live on, and 2) what is old is new again. Because of this, don't count out the kids perpetuating what is the best from previous eras. The Mark 1 Sprite is certainly one of those best things--truly iconic, to employ an overused word. Why is retro all the rage? Just fashion? That is certainly some of it, but great stuff is great stuff. I'm 51, but the 20 and 30 somethings I know listen to the best of 1970's music along with newer stuff because what was done in the '70's was unique. Not all of it was good, of course, and that will not live on. People also turn to things from previous eras to protest when things today get ridiculous or get so watered down that they lose their soul, their essence. Listen to an MP3 on earbuds long enough and you may ask yourself isn't there something better? Why is vinyl doing so well now? Fad? Maybe some of it. Play an LP on a great turntable and rediscover listening to music. Use your earbuds when you are at the gym. Both coexist. So, the world just gets richer and richer. The zero sum game that many preach is BS. The death of the book. The death of fill in the blank. I don't think so. I'm not worried about our cars--they seem to be doing just fine.

People of all ages and stripes go out of their way to tell me how much they love my Sprite. Those of us who own them (and other great cars) do ourselves and our cars a great service when we do actually drive them, because doing so opens the eyes of people who forgot about them or who have never seen one.
 
Not to diverge, but the expensive designer earphones like Beats have only marginally better sound than a pair of $35 head phones. However, it has made the masses accept that "good" headphones can cost several hundred dollars. Suddenly, manufactures like Shure, Sennheiser, Grado, etc. are seeing an increase in sales of their midlevel head phones.

Similar thing is happening with certain cars. People get accustom to seeing the uneducated pay too much for mediocre examples and suddenly buying a quality example at a similar price makes sense and becomes a good deal.
 
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