Brake Master Replacement?

[Tinster]

I have a strange Japanese gizzmo filled with
brake fluid in my 68/69TR. I doubt the Brits
subcontracted many TR parts to Japan back in
the day. Did they??

While my TR is sitting dead in my garage, I was
thinking about making a swap for the unit the TRF sells.

Is this something a non-mechanic like myself can handle?
Or are there major problems if I pull the Japanese unit
off while my TR is still dead?.

A photo attached for viewing of what I have.

All advice appreciated.

Tinster in Puerto Rico

 

[bash]

Hi Tinster

Looks like the Japanese replacement uses different pipes - the original cylinder has connections on the side (I think one is 3/8-24 thread, the other 7/16-20), so you would probably have to make new pipes, but if you still have the PDWA (the little four-way union with a wiring connection on top under the master cylinder) then these pipes are fairly short.

If you decide to go for the new master cylinder, then I suggest you shop around - I think www.victoriabritish.com has is a good bit cheaper than TRF, and other places may be cheaper still.

Hope that helps
Alistair

 

[Guest]

If you are going to replace your master cylinder with a new one, make certain that you spend the money wisely. There have been some non-original master cylinder units on the market that just don't hold up. I think they are still (or again) manufacturing the Girling/Lockheed units. I know TRF has them and Moss/VB may as well. Ask before you buy. Going is good, stopping is better.

Those brake lines are available in pre-bent steel, like the original. Don't even attempt to bend your own out of steel, the flares are hard enough. I used the nickel/copper lines from Moss and bent them by hand. Piece of cake. Steel lines are another story. And the Ni/Cu lines are just as good.


Bill

 

[Andrew Mace]

British Parts Northwest has new master cylinders for just over $150:

https://www.bpnorthwest.com/.sc/ms/dd/TR2...0Cylinder%20TR6

Meanwhile, if I understand your other question: yes, TR6s did originally have a brake booster. Whether the one in the picture is original to the TR6 or to the car from which your current master cylinder came, I can't say.

 

[Tinster]

Thanks all- I ALREADY HAVE the new TRF master cylinder.
The one in the photo is in my garage. I am asking if it
possible to install it onto the set-up I presently have
in the TR....while the TR remains dead.

I do not know what that black object in the photo is.
And I am concerned about the Japanese fluid pipes.
It appears I should order new pipes from TRF.

I am not sure what skills are needed to make the
change out.

Tin

 

[RomanH]

OK,
The black object in the picture is a brake servo unit, also known as the power brake booster. It does appear to be the correct one for the 6. The fittings for the Jap master cylinder are metric and will not screw into the new master that you have. Get the proper pipes and install the brake master as it does not require the car to be running to install. Just remember that you will have to bleed the entire brake system after the swap out. Also depending on the method you employ to bleed the brakes you may want to bleed them again after you get her running.

 

[Guest]

Actually, that brake booster is not the correct one for your car at all. The only thing that can be reused is the square aluminum spacer against the firewall. You will need the appropriate booster. You might call someone like Apple Hydraulics for a nice rebuilt one or dig deep and buy a new one. They ain't cheap.


Bill

 

[RomanH]

Bill, how did you determine that the booster is not the right one? It looks exactly the same as what is under my bonnet except for the master cylinder that is. Look at the attachment and tell me what I am missing here.

 

[Guest]

What do I know, Roman. Sure looks different than mine. Hmmmm.

You are probably right. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif


Bill

 

[RomanH]

So Bill what do you think, did they stick different servos in these things?

 

[swift6]

Other than the angle of the photograph, I'm not sure what either of you are seeing as different. The angle and the focal length of the respective lenses can change the appearance quite easily from one photo to another, don't forget to take that into account.

And we are talking about the vacuum servo's right, not the M/C itself?


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

 

[Guest]

No they didn't. The only difference were the older units had UNF threads and the newer ones went with Metric, part of Triumph's attempt to convert to Metric (never happened for the most part). There are some servos that fit other cars that look similar but are different. That is probably not the case here, just a matter of prospective.


An aside, Roman, my three grown sons and my wife are treating me to a weekend in your town on the 18th (my birthday). Will do the Miracle Mile, Old Town, Second City, and some jazz club in a checkered part of town. Should be fun. I've been to Chicago twice before and was impressed.

Bill

 

[RomanH]

Bill,
I think you are right and so is Shawn. I think we are looking at the exact same part with a different perspective so it appears to be something else.

Are you coming this weekend?
If you haven't been to Chicago in a while I think you will not recognize it. Mayor Daley has really cleaned up the city and instituted a long-term beatification program that has turned many areas completely around. That jazz club may now be in one of the hotter parts of town and not so checkered anymore. Also when downtown you have to visit Millenium park. I have not been but I am told that it is very nice and the sculptures are interesting.

 

[MadRiver]

Hi Tinster:

From what I can tell from your photograph, it does appear to be the correct brake servo, or at least a replacement that looks original. I just replaced the master cylinder and the servo on my TR-250. Sometimes the internal rubber diaphragm can become weakened by exposure to brake fluid if your master cylinder ever had internal leaks. If the diaphragm rips, then you'll have to apply more pressure to the brake pedel. Also, since the servo uses the vaccuum in the intake manifold to assist with pushing the brake pedal, a tear in the servo diaphragm means that the pressure in your intake manifold gets out of whack when you push the brake pedal.

So, if you already are going to replace your master cylinder, my advice would be to take out the 37 year old servo and get a new one, which IMHO is easier than rebuilding an existing one. They bolt in very easily, and look very nice painted all glossy if you choose to go that route. It's about a ten minute job. I did mine when I replaced my master cylinder, and I've been very happy with it, and I know it won't fail in the near future (I'm knocking on wood as I write this). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Good luck!

 

[Tinster]

Thanks Bill- appreciated

For now I think I better just order the new brake
fluid pipes, bending tool, male/female ends, end
flaring tool, etc.

The new servo is kinda pricey when compared to my
average of $1,500 per month replacing/fixing things
that are actually broken or buggered up.

My short term goal is to get the dead TR started
and street legal. Then maybe a drive or two to a beach
restaurant before it goes in for major engine work.

tinster

 

[Brosky]

"Then maybe a drive or two to a beach
restaurant before it goes in for major engine work."

Being rather optimistic, aren't we?

All kidding aside, you are doing this correctly by asking questions along the way, rather than just doing and learning by pain & more $$$$$.

 

[TR6oldtimer]

Tinster,
You do not need all the tubing tools. You can buy the pipes already made up to proper length with all the fittings. All you need to do is bend them to fit.

Moss has cupro-nickel which can, with care, be bent easily by hand. TRF has steel which is more difficult to work with, or you can opt to pay them $5 per pipe to bend. Other TR vendors also carry this stuff.

Making them yourself is not fun, and the idea is to have some fun.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
Tinster,
You do not need all the tubing tools. You can buy the pipes already made up to proper length with all the fittings. All you need to do is bend them to fit.

Moss has cupro-nickel which can, with care, be bent easily by hand. TRF has steel which is more difficult to work with, or you can opt to pay them $5 per pipe to bend. Other TR vendors also carry this stuff.

Making them yourself is not fun, and the idea is to have some fun.

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif

Dale, Moss Motors sells the Ni/Cu kit for $129 and they are the only vendor that I know that lists it. (there may well be others) I have installed two of these kits on TR6's (one being my own) and can attest that they are of a very high quality. You can use only the parts you need now for the master cylinder/PDWA valve and save the rest for later. They are extremely easy to bend by hand and the lengths they supply you with in the kit are pretty darn close to perfect. You can't buy the proper flaring tool and beat this price, especially after you have screwed up enough pipe trying to bend steel with the dreaded double flare and keep you sanity. It is supposed to be fun. Buy the kit and be done with it.


Bill

Remember, stopping is more important than going.....