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Body work resources

Dugger

Senior Member
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I did a search for bodywork in the archives and came up *zilch*. If anyone has a stored post that concerns sheetmetal repair, please send.

I just ordered Jim Richardson's, "Pro Paint & Body" and Martin Thaddeus's, "How to Restore Classic Car Bodywork" from Amazon.

Can anyone recommend another book or resource?

This will be my first attempt at total body restoration - the car's ...not mine...yet to hear my wife talk, I could use a little resto myself. I am about to embark on a new journey into the dark reaches of rust removal and panel repair on 'OlSpit' and I will need all the help I can get.

I have a list of *tools* already, but what I am really looking for is DIY detailed instruction. Okay, I know this is not rocket science, but most of the "reference" manuals only hint at a lot of the techniques and methods to deal with rust, dents, dings, panel replacement, primer, filler material, welding, etc.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yesnod.gif
 
My TR4 (that I just finished, check my web site) was my first real go at body metal work. It was not that hard after all, only time consuming, but not hard. If you are patient then it will be fine. The one piece of advice I will give that I gained form having done it is to get a good MIG welder that uses gas (NOT the flux core type) and that the electrode is not energized until you pull the trigger. Other then that take your time and have fun. It will be fine and nice in the end.
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gifI agree with everything Adrio has mentioned. I have several books on panel repair, but nothing in them replaces the experience of just going in and doing it. I also opted to fill using lead, which is a dying art. That took a long time to get the technique down, but the results in the end are worth it. I wouldn't recommend to anyone to use lead, as it's probably not that much superior to modern fillers, it's just something I wanted to learn and it is an ablsolutely PERMANENT repair.

My best advice is don't be tentative. Any metal that seems suspect should be cut out and replaced. This project WILL take a LONG TIME, so tackle one piece at a time and it won't feel so overwhelming. Make sure you set enough time each week to the project. Try not to let it sit for any lenght of time. I try to do something most every night after work, even if it's just for an hour...even if it's tracking down some part or making a "to do" list. Keep things rolling along, and it will eventually get done.
 
Forgive me if listing other sites isn't kosher. I've picked up a lot of welding knowledge from the Hobart welder website and from autobody.com website. Both are fantastic sites to learn technique and tips.
 
Glad you got the pans,Too hard to explain body resto by typing.Give me a call some Sat after lunch an I will give a brief way to sart your project.....But wait untill I get my 900 phone # installed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Dugger...you're down the road from me, I'm in Kingston.

Adrio is right-on...NO flux cored wire...been there done that...it stinks!!!(as in bad welds) IMHO

research the little things like: plug welds, spot welds, weld thru primer (use copper based is possible), durablock (my favorite tool), evercoat fillers(metal2metal and eurosoft are good). Good Luck. If you're ever going to be in Kingston, email me...we'll hookup.
Tim
 
Adrio, I have a Panasonic "Sharpshooter" welder with variable wire feed and voltage control. I have been doing a bit of practicing on old discarded fenders and hoods from a local bodyshop recycle bin. I learned real quick that you cannot weld metal if there is any rust - it justs *blows* out.

Martx5, All of the usable parts removed from OlSpit have been refurbished and packed away in marked boxes; those items that were too far gone were stored also-I don't throw anything away. [btw: you can collect a lot of *junk* when you keep everything] I agree, you cannot let a project ly about for too long or get complacent about its completion.

Has anyone here attempted rust removal with electrolsis?
Seems pretty straight forward. I am seriously considering cleaning my frame with this method. Anyone tried this?

Oh one more question...
My next big tool purchase will be a larger capacity air compressor. I am still looking at different models. The IR units are real nice, but pricy, The Craftsman, Campbell Hausfield, Coleman, Husky and Kobalt units are very similar. Anyone have any pros/cons (preferences) on these? Noise is a issue, but these guys don't list their dB at 5 feet on their data sheets. I 've opted for the oil-lubricated pump, but I was wondering if I really need the 10+ scfm @ 90psi pump and 60 gallon reservoir? Since most of the tools I have been eyeing range 4 to 8 scfm continuous, would a bit smaller unit, say, 5-6 scfm @ 90 psi and 30 gallon reservoir work for a home garage? Seems to me that a bit more storage capacity and accepting non-continuous operation (everyone can use a break) would compensate the larger usage tools and corresponding ($$$) compressor mechanicals. I can increase the 30 gallon storage with a 2" header + 1" drops to 45+ gallons. Thoughts?
 
Tim,
Thanks for the link. Maybe we can hook up at the Townsend show next spring or you could come to our show here in October.
 
Dugger,

I went out last year and bought a 20-gallon twin piston pump used compressor for $125. It's a 20-year old Craftsman - you know, the ones with instructions in only one language. Anyway, I can't remember all the details, but I believe it puts out 9.3 cfm at 40 psi and 7.7 cfm at 90 psi. I used it to paint my car and had no problems. The only tools I use that I have to wait for it to catch up on is my sandblaster and air polisher. But, I could use either of these tools a lot longer if I piped in an extra tank as you suggested. Regarding the noise - yes it is quite loud.

I didn't do any metal work, but I did do all of the prepping and painting. I used the forum at www.autobodystore.com and the link that Tim sent. I just got through painting last weekend and right now I'm in the process of colorsanding and buffing. I'm really happy with my first paint job. It's certainly not show quality, but it's very presentable. Best of all, I've only spent around $400 on it including paint, primer, sandpaper, etc.
 
Cain,
Makes you proud don't it! I've painted 3 cars in my life...this last one (my wife VW convert)turned out the best. As you know, no paint job is perfect. The biggest single lesson I learned from this last is: wear a tyvex type suit (less lint/dust). I had a couple of lint particles get on the panels..I blocked this 100% by hand (durablock)...no air tools. I doubt if I will use another airtool again once I've passed 40 grit. I also used my first HVLP gun on her car...WOW...painting has changed since my last job in 1989...:smile:
Tim
 
Tim,

Yes, it makes me proud, but my free time is limited with a two-year old and a wife that works a night shift and it will take me a while to finish colorsanding. I've got ants in my pants to slap everything back on the car and take it for a spin!! But, I know I'd be kicking myself later if I don't take the time to do a good job sanding and buffing right now. Maybe I can be done by the time the weather cools off a bit.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I also used my first HVLP gun on her car...WOW...painting has changed since my last job in 1989...:smile:
Tim

[/ QUOTE ]
Tim, tell us about the HVLP. I tried my new one with water based varathane on a wood project last month for the first time. It seems like a lot different, and I never felt I got it right enough to try a car. so what is the secret? I seemed to have to move the gun a LOT slower across the surface then I remember with the old style gun.
 
Hi Adrio!
I like the toys on your site...nice.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What gun and tip size were you using.

I used a Finishline 3 with a 1.5mm tip. I used Nason sealer and nason acrylic enamel.

As you well know, you can get just about any spray pattern/liquid density by adjusting the 'spreader' and 'fluid' valves. If I were guessing, sounds like more open on the 'fluid' control valve would have been good when you were shooting. I adjusted mine per the Devilbiss instructions. It is actually kinda hard to get the acrylic enamel to run. The sealer really helped the quality of finish...IMO.

The things that stick in my head from the HVLP lesson are:
If you use a quick disconnect...MAKE SURE IT IS A HVLP QUICK DISCONNECT. They have a MUCH larger internal diameter. I gave all of my non HVLPs away once I saw the good stuff...:smile:
Check/set the air pressure being delivered to the HVLP gun WITH the trigger fully depressed.

I linked to the Deviliss setup sheets. Should apply to any gun, especially HVLP.
Devilbiss Setup
Good Luck,
Tim
 
Thanks for the link to Devilbis. I used a no name gun from one of the mail order houses that I bought about 5 years ago. As to the size of the tip my memory does not go back that far. Next time I am in the storage area I will dig up the gun and see what the size is.

Did you use hardener in the paint you sprayed?
 
Looks like I have a lot to think about.

Thanks for the information, links, and thoughts.

All of this information brings another question to mind.

Am I heading down the wrong path with my restoration plans????
I guess what I am trying to ask is, how far should I take the work on my end?
Should I just do the structural repair and maybe some panel straightening and leave the all the finish work to the painter?

I would really like to try my hand at it, but the painter may not warranty the coating over someone else's work.
Has anyone ran into this situation? Are my concerns justified?

hmmm...I suppose I should talk to a few auto painters for their take?

A couple of years ago, I got two quotes for a paint/repair job before I started dismantling the car. The price really shocked me. Both quotes were well over 3/4ths the market value of the Spitfire. [I heard that a Spit took "Best In Show" at the VTR this year; that may increase there street value a bit!]

I have some experience, albeit 30 yrs ago, at this type of repair. This was on my first car, a '55 Chevy, but I had a friend whose father looked in on my work and gave me advice now and again. I have to say that I was pleased then with my results, but I am a lot more finicky [my wife calls it anal!] today.

Are these newer paint guns more or less forgiving for the DIY'er?..or should I say novice DIY'er?
 
I've done all my own bodywork and plan to tackle the final paint job as well. Straightening dings and dents and using body filler where needed is not rocket science, art yes. I figure that if I work every panel myself and take all paint etc. off down to bare metal well at least I know that the final paint job will have a good foundation. I'm sure there are lots of very good bodymen and painters out there but no one will love your car the way you will.
 
Hi Mike,

You've gotten a lot of good advice so far regarding welders, paint guns and compressors. Tackling a project like this is a great opportunity to learn new skills and have the satisfaction of a completed job at the end. Just be sure not to bite off too much. That's where some of those abandoned restoration projects we see on eBay probably come from!

Spend some time watching "Overhaulin'" and "American Hotrod". Notice that both car builders tend to send out certain work, or at least delegate to a separate team of specialists. Both shops usually send cars out to an independent media blaster to get the old paint completely off and best identify what body repair is necessary. They get the car back, do their thing, sometimes bringing in engine/drivetrain/exhaust specialists along the way, then send the car back out for final paint and upholstery.

Granted, Coddington has his own group of paint specialist to rely upon. My point is it's a lot of work and a number of different skills that go into a restoration and it's very hard for one person to learn them all. It can also become an overwhelming task, too much for one person.

Personally, I would do the body work, body fitting and prep, then leave the painting to someone else. There are a couple reasons for this.

One, I live in California where there are a lot of restrictions on auto painting. Plus all our neighbors are within a few feet and unlikely to tolerate the noise and smells. Check for laws and regulations in your community. Maybe there is no problem where you live, but find out before investing in a lot of equipment.

Two, there is a lot more to a paint setup than a gun and a compressor, if a decent quality paint job is the goal. There are safety issues, particularly with two-part paints, that might mean buying breathing apparatus. There are concerns about water and other contaminents in the air supply that can quickly spoil a paint job. Some sort of water/oil separation is necessary in the air system, a lot more than just the commonly available air/oil sperators sold with compressors. And, a true spray booth is still the best way to both apply and cure the paint for a fine finish and long term durability.

Finally, painting an art/skill acquired by many years of practice. It's been 20+ years since I've done anything more than rattlecan spraying and I would be concerned about my own abilities to do a job I'd be happy with, in the end.

Here's an alternative possiblity...

You might want to ask again at a couple of those body shops you already visited, but this time find out what they would charge to *just* paint the car. That would involve a great deal less labor on their part and should reduce their quotes a lot. If you were to bring them a car with all the old paint removed, body work done, trim removed and major body parts separated, etc. that's probably the majority of the hours that they would normally need to put into the job. Prep work is the most time consuming. They will still likely need to do an all-over sanding, mask, apply a sealer coat, a primer, and one or several top coats of paint. It's a couple days work instead of weeks! Your car would come back to you freshly painted, but in pieces for you to reassemble.

Anyone taking this approach will need to insure paint compatibility. Talk with the shop about what type of rattlecan primer you can use to protect the work while it's in progress, although the painter will need to mostly sand it off and paint over it in the end. Bare steel begins to rust within *hours* of being stripped and needs to be protected until the car goes out to the painter.

By going this route, you won't have the pleasure of learning *all* the trades, but might find you can learn several well while your resources go farther in other areas and the job feels a lot less daunting.

Another thing I'd like to suggest is to take some welding, body work and painting classes at a local community college or vocational school. Heck, you might even be able to work on some of your own stuff in the course of the class. These and good high school vocational programs are also a possibility for lower cost final painting, too, but at some risk with people working on your car "for the experience".

Speaking of "body work", not to worry... You will get plenty of exercise sanding, grinding, welding and hammering (and painting, if you choose to do so). You might want to drop your 24 Hour Fitness membership during the months you're working on the car!

Other books I recommend are Ron Fournier's "Metal Fabrication" for general information. Also look for Spitfire-specific books similar to the TR-series "How to restore..." written by Roger William. He hasn't written about Spitfire yet, but I see on Amazon there are Haynes Spitfire Restoration Manual and Practical Classics Spitfire Restoration. These model-specific books can be a huge time saver by addressing problems you'll most likely encouinter and offering proven solutions.

Best of luck with your project!

Alan Myers
San Jose, Calif.
'62 TR4 CT17602L
 
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