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TR2/3/3A BMW TR3

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Geo Hahn

Geo Hahn

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I pass along this message from Tim Suddard/Classic Motorsports magazine...

===========================

I had the chance to have dinner with Tom Purvis, president of BMW a couple of nights ago.

As some may know, he hails from Rover and is quite the British car enthusiast. I mentioned that I race a TR3 and he admitted a special fondness for that car. He quickly reminded me that BMW owns the rights to the Triumph name and hinted that there had been some discussion about bringing the Triumph name back from the dead. I suggested a retro TR3 looking car based on the BMW Z-4 with the 2.0 liter four cylinder BMW uses in Europe, since the original TR3 had a 2.0 liter four cylinder.

Without putting to many words in his mouth he seemed genuinely interested in this idea and wanted to talk about it further. I told him a year from now, once the enormity of the new retro Mustang's success was obvious, would be a good time to discuss this whole idea some more.

What do you guys think? Would you buy it? What should it cost? Should it be called the TR1 since the name was never really used or the TR9? Tom mentioned the enormity of setting up the MINI dealer network and building a new brand image. What if BMW started a sort of BMC or British Leyland division again and lumped Triumph in with MINI?

Let's get some dialog going on this and I will get back with Tom Purvis. As it will be easier to get him to our message board, than to get him to join FOT and a message board is easier to keep organized than a million emails, I have started a thread on our message board:

https://www.grmotorsports.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=71447#71447

Please go here and post your ideas. if you participate in any other Triumph boards, groups sites etc, please also see if you can get them to post their ideas on this thread. I for one would love a new TR3 looking car with BMW performance and build quality. This guy seemed genuinely interested. Heck who knows, maybe we can change the automotive world with our little club of Triumph wackos!

Thanks.

Tim Suddard/Classic Motorsports magazine
 
I'm in!! But only if it could capture the TR3 feel and design. Wouldn't want another Beetle remake.

Mickey
 
I wondered who owned the name, My BMW powered TR6 is starting to sound like an even better idea. As a long time BMW Master Technician, I would love to see it. I don't like the way BMW is going right now with designs or technology (not normal stuff, dumb stuff like idrive, mirror BUS systems and horrible diagnostic programming), and when the new E90 3 series comes out, simplicity will be gone. I sometimes wish someone like Tom would take a drive in a well sorted 87 325is to see why so many fell in love with the car in the first place. The Z4 which is overpriced on purpose may be axed permanently to make room for another pile of crap like the X3. They do have a nice, simple car in the 1 series, but we may never see it. Back on topic, use the 1 series platform, New Generation 4 cylinder, bring it in right around 2000 pounds, price it 5% less than an Elise and slap Triumph badge on it and I'm there.
 
Sounds great!
But how do you get the look and feel (computer gibberish) of the original.
"It rides hard and smells, they just don't make 'em like that anymore". (sic)
Come to think of it, maybe we don't want quite that much look and feel!
 
That's an interesting connection between Triumph and BMW. I actually like the Z4 precisely because it does have lines like the TR3... from the side... a little... if you squint...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif
 
Look and feel can be maintained as long as they use guys like us in the Focus group. Did anyone here know that the 95 M3 was brought to the US as a limited production car solely due to lobbying my the BMW CCA? Yale Rachlin went to NA with a proposal, and deposits by other CCA members, they speced out a US vesion of the car and built it. There was only supposed to be 5000 in 95, but it ended up successful that it continued to 99 and sold more M cars than all M production combined. They even decided to give us the same version as across the pond in 01.
 
Bottom line, BMW can do anything it wishes. They could put four wheels and an engine in a Frigidare refrigerator and sell it as a car if they put their muscle behind it.

It would be absolutely no stretch for BMW to resurrect the Triuph name, repackage it in some "retro" look car, and sell it. Just look at the new MINI! An obsure car, at best, that sold far less units in a shorter amount of time than Triumph. In that context, resurrecting Triumph would be easy!

All BMW has to do is do it! Talk is cheap, we'll wait with baited breath.
 
Sure like the idea of a TR3-C Keep the weight down, no power windows, simple top, rack and pinion steering, a decent suspension and a multivalve, 2-liter banger. People can do aftermarket turbos, suspension mods, etc to suit their tastes.
 
Jayhawk,

I like your scenario, a simple car just like the original with very few frills... maybe a price point at or a little below the Miata.

Except for the wacko/funky new 7 series and to a lesser extent the new 5 series, I usually love BMWs. One of my favorite cars of all time is the old M6, which was very much a drivers car. However I think the newer 5 and 7 series has lost a little of that with that command stick thing gizmo that they have now.

I also have a slight issue (ok big issue) with BMW's dealer network. I was ready to buy a new Mini S (I could have written a check that day), but got a big runaround with the dealer. I simply refuse to purchase a car from a company when I feel like I'm being treated like a second class citizen, and I've heard from more than a few people about other BMW dealerships as well. So, I left the dealership and bought my SVT the next day. Goes/rides/handles/brakes the same for less money and more cargo room.

Even if they make a new one, the old TR3 would be the one I would get. The remakes are never as good as the original.

As usual, your mileage may vary...

-Shannon
 
As long as they don't let Chris Bangle anywhere near the thing, I'm in!
 
Shannon-- I probably am a second class citizen in the eyes of most BMW dealers-- I might have gone for a mini S too if they weren't charging an extra arm for the "market adjustment" I normally don't buy new cars anyway so they wouldn't have much use for me. I hear that little Focus SVT is fun to drive and pretty practical too. Do the rear seats fold flat?
 
Jayhawk,

Yes the rear seats do fold flat. My little SVT is a blast to drive there's really not anything it doesn't do well, although I could stand it to be a tad quicker in a straight line.

Yeah the premium that the dealers charge for the Mini is nuts. Since I work for Volvo Truck we get the xplan for Ford cars, I ended up paying $10,000 less for the SVT than for a comparibly equiped Mini S. It was a no brainer at that point.

The Mini S handles just a tad better, but the SVT more than makes up for it in utility. The cargo area in a mini is less than a 12" deep.

-Shannon
 
2003 Retail Value with 30000 miles, Exc Cond.

Focus SVT = $12,715

Mini Cooper S = $22,770

2003 Private Party value with 30000 miles, Exc. Cond.

Focus SVT = $10,745

Mini Cooper S = $20,155
 
Just love my Cooper S! At the risk of being called a car snob, I don't think I could ever be as attached to a Ford as I am to my Mini. I mean, what other car comes woth a checker-board roof as an option?? And the Mini is British (made at least).
 
BMW may own the name, they can slap a Triumph name on it, but a Triumph it won't be. No more so than when Triumph themselves slapped the Acclaim name on the Honda Civic a few years back.

Another car division would (IMO) spread BMW too thin - this at a time when they are trying to redefine themselves to, by their own admission, a changing audience. So far they've missed the mark, but at least they've managed a slim lead ahead of Audi in making the ugliest cars currently coming from Germany.

I love my TR and the culture associated with it, but when it comes to a new car, in the end it's the money that talks, and if presented with a a BMW TR I would consider it equally against the other contenders in that segment. BMW would be making yet another mistake if they think folks - Triumph lovers included - would spend a premium just for the word "Triumph" on the hood.

They should chuck the hideous Z4, bring back the Z3, and send Chris Bangle over to Mercedes so he can wipe out the last remaining attractive German sedans.

Ned
 
[ QUOTE ]
2003 Retail Value with 30000 miles, Exc Cond.
Focus SVT = $12,715
Mini Cooper S = $22,770

2003 Private Party value with 30000 miles, Exc. Cond.
Focus SVT = $10,745
Mini Cooper S = $20,155

[/ QUOTE ]

Really now? Thanks for the info there sparky... I didn't buy the SVT as an investment... and anyone that does buy a new car as such is a fool.

I don't buy a car for a resale value, if I did I certainly wouldn't have bought my TR. I buy a car or truck for the fun factor. And what I'm saying is that I've driven both and the Mini doesn't have $10,000 more fun than the SVT... But then again it's all relative right?

As I said before.. the Mini is a great car, and I would own one now if the dealership wasn't a butt. But my SVT is still a great little car and dead stock I've wuped up on some pretty expensive machines (with much higher resale values) in autocross.

But as always, your mileage may vary...
-Shannon
 
I'm split here. On one hand I'd dearly love to see the Triumph name revived, and on the other, part of what I love about these cars is their simplicity and relative obscurity. I think if anyone could pull it off it would be BMW (the new Mini proves that) but modern safety and emissions standards ,not to mention the amenities considered necessary by the mainstream motoring public, would not permit the car to have any of the features( or lack there of) that provided the core "magic" of a TR3. I think BMW could come up with what would amount to a retro styled Z4 that would appeal to guy that "had one of those TR3s years ago" and would like to recapture some of that without the effort required to maintain a vintage car. Or to the Triumph lover that would love to have a modern daily driver that helps satisfy his or her lust for the old british iorn. All this said I guess I like the idea. I look forward to seeing a concept car.
 
Lotus Elise US sales would be a good indicator of potential sales. It's very barebones for the US market, and priced slightly less than a Z4. BMW can build the MINI and BMW 1 series with MRS systems, A/C and power door locks in the $16k to $20k slot, they could do the same, as long as they stick to "KISS". I read an article in Classic and Sports Cars a while back interviewing the Miata's designers, they said thier biggest challange was sticking to basics and simplicity.
 
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