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BJ8 Resistry

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dougsmarkIII

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Just found out the BJ8 Registry is not available to access on line. Apparently it is for Steve Byers' eyes only. So my question is, what good is it? Mr. Byers states he has to protect personal data in the "Registry".

Don't believe there is such a thing as "personal data" these days. If there is personal data in the Registry, it should not be in there. It's a registry.

The Registry should be available for owners to view and research. Mr. Byers will only send you what you personally have submitted to the Registry. [h=3] sbyers@ec.rr.com[/h]
Doug
 
You made your point. International law protects people in different ways.
One of them is to safeguard the use of data that can be related to them
As long as the law is in place everyone has the right for himself to be open
Therefore put your cars data in your signature and google the rest ;-)
 
"Google the rest" What are you talking about? You're not making sense. What international law protects people? All phone records, emails and anything on the internet is available to governments and their secret agencies.

Doug
 
All -
I'm sorry for the length of this reply, but Doug raises some issues that are not easily addressed in just a few sentences.

Doug,

I'm very sorry you were displeased after your brief e-mail exchange with me. You didn't tell me what you were looking for in the registry, just that you couldn't find the registry on-line. Since you mentioned you had submitted the data for your car (in 2010), I sent you a copy of your entry in the registry so you could see what it looked like (format, details recorded, etc.).Tell me what information you were trying to find, and I'll see what I can do. Your statement that I will provide only what someone has personally submitted to the registry IS NOT CORRECT!

I will provide ANY information in the registry about a car, or statistics developed from the complete registry, to anyone who asks EXCEPT I cannot release names/addresses/telephone numbers/e-mail addresses of owners or ex-owners to third parties without first obtaining approval from the person whose data it is. There are at least a couple good reasons for that, and one exception:
1. The original registries (in the USA) were started by the AHCA in the mid-1980s. By published club policy, personal data would not be released to third parties without permission. When I became BJ8 registrar in 1998, I had to agree to protect the personal data that was provided to me by AHCA, and I do.
2. Some people will provide any information asked for by the registry and more. But there are some who are sensitive about such things as the VIN of their car and their contact information and they would not participate in the registries if that data were indiscriminately released to the world without their knowledge. For several years, I also obtained information from the AHCUSA, but that stopped with a change of officers a few years ago due to concern about privacy of the personal data, but primarily due to the fear of liability of the club if the personal data was released and caused the club to be sued by some irate club member. The real effect of that change was that the ownership history of a lot of cars is now being lost to some individual owners of the future because there is no central place to record it.
EXCEPTION: It is my policy to release personal contact information for owners of a car, but ONLY to other owners of the same car if they ask. If that can't be done to allow one owner of a given car to contact another previous or later owner, then there is no reason to document the personal data in the first place. And I have never had anyone complain about that use of their data.
It is our common interest in the CARS that bring us all together into this community. But it is the PEOPLE who give the cars meaning.

The registry has evolved over the years in an effort to become a valuable and useful tool to the worldwide BJ8 community. Rather than a simple list of members of a particular club and the VINs of the cars they own (as it was up to 1998), my goal became to identify every single BJ8 that still exists (and those that don't, when possible to determine that), and to record some specific details about each. These details collected together on a large number of cars can allow us to make comparisons, draw conclusions, and gain understanding about how the cars were originally manufactured, and how they are configured and distributed around the world today. They also reveal patterns that make it possible to identify when something is not quite right -- is this engine or body plate original to this car? Is the VIN correct for the other details? Are the claims on eBay - or by any other seller - accurate ("two-owner car", when I have a record of six previous owners?)
I have learnedthat most owners are very interested in the previous ownership history of theircars, but that there are precious few resources to allow anyone to trace the history of their car. So, the registry provides a central location for the continuous ownership record of each car, and I have developed quite a few resources to allow me to identify previous owners.

What good is the BJ8 Registry? Well, let me count the ways -- or a few examples, at least.

Did you hear of the guy last year who recovered his BJ8 42 years after it was stolen from him? That was made possible by the registry. He told me in 2006 that it had been stolen from him in 1970 in Philadelphia. I entered the VIN into the registry with his personal data and the note about the theft. I saw a car with the same VIN and the correct color come up for sale on eBay in May 2012 and notified him, and he took it from there. He would have been out of luck had I not had his name/address/telephone/e-mail recorded so I could get in touch with him.
Last week, an owner in France was finally able to establish the true identity of his car, which has been registered with an incorrect VIN for the last 20 years. The registry provided advice on where to find the appropriate evidence, and some guidance on how to get the car re-registered with its correct number.

I'll let forum member rdkeysor relate how the registry was helpful to him in getting his car properly registered in Florida when the authorities were giving him a hard time, although it wasn't a BJ8. Ditto a car in Canada being refused registration because the VIN on the California title did not match the VIN plate exactly. Or all the scam sales attempted on eBay and quickly shut down because the registry data allowed immediately identifying them as a scam. And the car in The Netherlands that now has its original VIN plate because it was sent to me by a former owner in the USA. The original Passport to Service warranty booklet for two other cars and one original Drivers Handbook that have been returned to the current owners. Or the engine serial number plate being sold on eBay that now is back with the engine it belongs to. Or helping someone locate a particular car that was owned by his father back in the '70s so he could buy it. As mentioned before, I have access to the BMIHT data without having to order a certificate, and therefore the registry provides a FREE alternative for thousands of cars to a certificate if the owner only wants the data. I could go on, but if you want more examples, just ask, and please give me another chance to make the registry serve you.

As of today, the registry has records for 8,107 cars worldwide, which is approaching 50% of the total originally manufactured.
 
Well thanks to Steve Byers for explaining what the BJ8 Registry can do and that's a lot. Still, all information in and out has to go through Steve, an owner cannot access the BJ8 Registry to research anything without it going through Steve and asking questions about a specific car or Steve sees something that his attention and the registry records can help.

I personally don't believe a registry should be so exclusive that only one person has access to it and controls all the information.

I hope Mr. Byers has a backup person that has access to the registry.

Maybe I'm being too critical but that is my opinion at this time.

Doug
 
I guess I too was under the impression that the list of VINs were available for public consumption__I can certainly appreciate the need for keeping all contact information private. That is a little disappointing; I mean, I'd like to be able to see how many other Healeys in the immediate range of my own car's VIN (say BN6L-940 through BN6L-949) have survived. I imagine the astute BJ8 owner being curious about the same data.

I do still applaud your efforts on the board here though Steve, and I didn't even know about all the acts of heroism listed in your response above. No doubt that you're providing a necessary service to the value of ownership (past, present and future) as a whole, I'm just left hungry for still more information__IF BN6L-941 or 943 were being restored eight miles away, for example, I'd sure want to know about it. If the owner told me to go fly a kite, well, so be it...

Here's an assignment for you; I have in my possession the owners manual (MK I-II w/BJ7 suppliment, somewhat weathered, but still intact) and the original bill of sale for HBJ7L-932*. See if you can come up with the cars/owners in the range of 9320 - 9329, and if you hit on the missing digit, you can put that owner in contact with me. I know your specialty is the BJ8, but surely you cross boundaries sometime ;)
 
dougsmarkIII said:
Well thanks to Steve Byers for explaining what the BJ8 Registry can do and that's a lot. Still, all information in and out has to go through Steve, an owner cannot access the BJ8 Registry to research anything without it going through Steve and asking questions about a specific car or Steve sees something that his attention and the registry records can help.

I personally don't believe a registry should be so exclusive that only one person has access to it and controls all the information.

I hope Mr. Byers has a backup person that has access to the registry.

Maybe I'm being too critical but that is my opinion at this time.

Doug
Click to expand...

Doug, during recent registry attention within AHCA that resulted from some questions I asked at a Delegates meeting (still not totally resolved), AHCA has modified their requirements for registries. If you are an AHCA member and receive the magazine, you might have noticed that registries are divided into two categories as far as AHCA is concerned: those registries that comply with AHCA policies and requirements, and those that don't. One of the requirements is that each registrar provide a backup copy of the complete registry to the designated AHCA officer once each year on a CD. The backup copy is opened to ensure that it can be opened and read, but then is locked away for safekeeping in case something happens to the primary registry or to the registrar. Some registries have chosen, for whatever reason, not to comply with those requirements and so are designated "Other" registries. AHCA supports the sanctioned registries with membership and car data of club members, but not so for the "other" registries. The 100M and Nash Healey registries are two examples of "other". These changes took place when AHCA realized that some original registrars considered the data their personal property and would not share it with the club, thus resulting in a loss of years of effort sponsored by AHCA to collect the data in the first place.
So yes, there is a backup, but it is not exactly what you had in mind. You must realize that building and maintaining a registry as large as the BJ8 is practically a full-time job. I'm retired and can handle it, plus I have the interest and motivation. I don't believe it would be practical for another person to be the type of backup you want. The registry changes daily, and if there were two copies of it out there it wouldn't take long for the database to become inconsistent and screwed up.

You haven't yet told me what data you would want to see if you had access to the registry, just that you are frustrated that you can't research it personally. It has been only twice, maybe, that anyone during my tenure has expressed that opinion. Apparently, everyone but two in 15 years has been satisfied with the answers that they have got from me. I do the work, you get the benefit.
 
According to the Clausager book, BJ7 cars would be from 17551 to 25314, all five digit chassis numbers. Sometimes the L becomes a 1 and vice-versa at Motor Vehicles. I have HBJ7 19285 without the L . Not a right hand drive either.
Bob
 
Randy Forbes said:
Here's an assignment for you; I have in my possession the owners manual (MK I-II w/BJ7 suppliment, somewhat weathered, but still intact) and the original bill of sale for HBJ7L-932*. See if you can come up with the cars/owners in the range of 9320 - 9329, and if you hit on the missing digit, you can put that owner in contact with me. I know your specialty is the BJ8, but surely you cross boundaries sometime ;)
Click to expand...

Randy,

Might want to contact the BJ7 registrar:
[h=3]Thomas Blaskovics. Please direct any questions or comments to him at tomkayb@comcast.net[/h]
 
From what I've seen of Steve's activities for the registry, he's one of the most conscientious registrars around. Anyone who will take the time to track down the owners of cars on eBay to include in the registry is going above and beyond the incredible salary he gets (nothing). Although having the data in the registry available for all to search might satisfy our curiosity, the possible misuse of the information far outweighs that in my mind. With chassis and engine plates so easily duplicated for Healeys, open access to this information is an open invitation to those who would commit fraud. More than a few of us remember duplicate 100Ms showing up with the same engine and chassis numbers. And I certainly would be unhappy if contact information was being given out. In Massachusetts, you used to be able to submit a license plate number to the Registry of Motor Vehicles and they would identify the car owner for you with name and address. Yeah, they don't do that anymore.
 
DerekJ said:
Amazing what people will find the time to complain about.
Click to expand...

So an opinion about the lack of access to the BJ8 Registry is an amazing complaint?

Well now I'm complaining about your comment. it's not deserved and others had questions about The BJ8 Registry access also. It was time this was cleared up.

Doug
 
British_Recovery said:
According to the Clausager book, BJ7 cars would be from 17551 to 25314, all five digit chassis numbers. Sometimes the L becomes a 1 and vice-versa at Motor Vehicles. I have HBJ7 19285 without the L . Not a right hand drive either.
Bob
Click to expand...
It looked like a " / " but you're probably correct that it is BJ7L 1932* (and that WAS from looking at it with a magnifying glass...)...
 
What exactly do you want cleared up? Steve looks after the registry in his own time, without charge, and has explained the reasons behind how it is organised and why some information is restricted. What else is there?
 
[Randy Forbes: Iguess I too was under the impression that the list of VINs were available forpublic consumption__]

Randy, the VINs of all the BJ8s manufactured are already known: chassis numbers range from 25315 through 43026, inclusive. I will put a car in the registry if there is ANY information about that car at all, if it can be identified to VIN. There may be no actual record of any owner. The car itself may have been scrapped in 1973,but the body number plate survived and the number was reported to me. I can find out from BMIHT which chassis number "owned" that body plate, plus all the usual BMIHT information that goes with a particular car, and then I can enter the VIN and original manufacturing data of the car in the registry with the notation that its body plate is held by Joe Blowe of 123 Main Street,Pork Center, Iowa. If that car ever turns up, then perhaps I can help return its body plate to it.
I have every one of the 17,712 BJ8 chassis numbers already entered into the registry, but those chassis numbers for which I do not yet have any information are listed in a separate color. I can't describe every detail of the registry structure here, but if anyone is interested, contact me directly at sbyers(at)ec(dot)rr(dot)com and we'll have a chat.

[I can certainly appreciate the need for keeping all contact information private. That is a little disappointing; I mean, I'd like to be able to see how many other Healeys in the immediate range of my own car's VIN (say BN6L-940through BN6L-949) have survived. I imagine the astute BJ8 owner being curious about the same data.]

For BJ8s, anyone with a similar question can contact me and I can provide all the information like that you want.

[I do still applaud your efforts on the board here though Steve, and Ididn't even know about all the acts of heroism listed in yourresponse above. No doubt that you're providing a necessary service to the valueof ownership (past, present and future) as a whole, I'm just left hungry forstill more information__IF BN6L-941 or 943 were being restored eight milesaway, for example, I'd sure want to know about it. If the owner told me to gofly a kite, well, so be it...]

Well, thanks for the kind words. I would have no idea if someone out there would have a similar interest about a range of BJ8s unless they asked. I can understand your frustration. But there are some people who would absolutely flip out if some stranger called them about their car – “howdid you get my phone number and VIN???? Oh, you got it on-line from the BJ8 registry? Well, I am spreading the word about how that data is being released indiscriminately, and whoever did it might expect a call from my lawyer.” Sometimes I make assumptions about what a particular individual owner would be interested in,and I turn out to be wrong. I just asked the long-time owner of an Ohio BJ8 ifhe would be interested in the DMV registration records of that car from North Carolina in the 1970s and earlier, possibly back to the original owner. He said, "Thanks, but no thanks, don't know what I would do with that information."

[Here's an assignment for you; I have in my possession the owners manual (MKI-II w/BJ7 suppliment, somewhat weathered, but still intact) and the originalbill of sale for HBJ7L-932*. See if you can come up with the cars/owners in therange of 9320 - 9329, and if you hit on the missing digit, you can put thatowner in contact with me. I know your specialty is the BJ8, but surely youcross boundaries sometime]

Randy, you quote"HBJ7L-932*, but BJ7 chassis numbers run from 175512 through 25314. Did you mean BN7L-932* or BT7L-932*?
 
Thanks Steve, I really do see it from both sides, just wish there was more open-mindedness among (both) car owners and registrars (YOU know who I'm referring to; if it weren't for the rollup windows, I'd trade my car for one a decade newer so YOU'D be my registrar).

Bob cleaned up and corrected me on the BJ7 number__I missed the 1923*.
 
With Steve's help I was able to find out the correct vin number for my BJ8. The vin number on the title is not the one for my car but with his help he told me where to look, shock tower, to get the correct one. I was able to learn that the spare engine block I had with the ID plate on it is the correct one for my car. I contacted the local Police fraud dept and they came out to see my car and I'm going to be able to change the title to the correct vin number after it's back on the road and inspected. I also was able to get a new vin plate made for the firewall.
 
Randy Forbes said:
Thanks Steve, I really do see it from both sides, just wish there was more open-mindedness among (both) car owners and registrars (YOU know who I'm referring to; if it weren't for the rollup windows, I'd trade my car for one a decade newer so YOU'D be my registrar).

Bob cleaned up and corrected me on the BJ7 number__I missed the 1923*.
Click to expand...

Aw, go ahead Randy get a BJ8 with rollup windows you won't miss the discomforts and the hassle of side screens.

Doug
 
DerekJ said:
What exactly do you want cleared up? Steve looks after the registry in his own time, without charge, and has explained the reasons behind how it is organised and why some information is restricted. What else is there?
Click to expand...

In spite of your attempt at a personal put-down of me which is uncalled for, I believe most of us learned more of how the BJ8 registry works. And that "clears up" a few things.

Doug
 
.
Just in case there was any doubt, your friendly neighborhood Moderator is on duty and hoping that we won't come any closer to personal squabbling here than we have already. This forum is particularly well-behaved, and thank you all again for that.

To add my two pence to the discussion, it seems to me that the main reason for guarding the privacy of the information in any given registry is not so much an exaggerated sense of security on the part of the registrars, but is more due to an exaggerated sense of privacy on the part of many owners. Some people seem to think it is a profoundly personal and private piece of information that they own such-and-such a BJ8 or other car, and if they believe that that information would be available online, or that a registrar were giving it out freely, they would not register their cars at all.

Personally I think that a lot of people suffer from an exaggerated idea of the sensitivity of their car's VIN or other identifying information - I mean, it's not like your Social Security number of safe deposit box key pattern - but I don't get to decide how sensitive others should be, so there we are. As a side note, have you ever noticed how so many people advertising a car for sale will blur or cover their license plate number? I have never understood what mischief they think that others may commit with the information - after all, every one of the hundreds or thousands of people who sees their car when they are out driving it can clearly see the license plate number - but apparently there is some widespread belief that some bad consequence will follow posting photos online of their car with its license plate visible.

Nice comments - agreeing or disagreeing - are always welcomed here.
 
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