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billet vs chrome
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coldplugs
Darth Vader
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DrEntropy said:
Exactly.
I frequented a machinist's newsgroup for years and remember someone asking exactly what everyone thought "billet" actually meant. Other than vague references to material shape (e.g. barstock if it's cylindrical etc) there was no agreement except that everyone agreed that it sounded good in advertisements.
JamesWilson
Yoda
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coldplugs said:
particularly for the exceedingly demanding requirements of a license plate frame....
racingenglishcars
Darth Vader
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Billet is not deformation hardened!
It is basically as cast.
It doesn't matter the material, though usually the term is reserved for metal.
Once it is deformation hardened, such as with forging or extruding, it becomes... forged or extruded.
I am not a fan of billet wheels. Deformation hardening is an excellent way of strengthing the material. Cast 2000 series Aluminium contains enough copper to make it reasonably strong. I still wouldn't think 2000 series wheels to be strong enough. Billet wheels are probably at least 5, 6, or 7000 series. (just a guess)
I don't think a license plate needs to be anything special, just not 1100 aluminium. It's so soft it would bend when you screw the plate on the car.
It is basically as cast.
It doesn't matter the material, though usually the term is reserved for metal.
Once it is deformation hardened, such as with forging or extruding, it becomes... forged or extruded.
I am not a fan of billet wheels. Deformation hardening is an excellent way of strengthing the material. Cast 2000 series Aluminium contains enough copper to make it reasonably strong. I still wouldn't think 2000 series wheels to be strong enough. Billet wheels are probably at least 5, 6, or 7000 series. (just a guess)
I don't think a license plate needs to be anything special, just not 1100 aluminium. It's so soft it would bend when you screw the plate on the car.
OP
MCNX_BFF
Senior Member
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JamesWilson said:coldplugs said:
particularly for the exceedingly demanding requirements of a license plate frame....
So right! The ad sounded good to me...plus, it's shiny and expensive. Two of my favorite adjectives! So glad you are all here to steer me in the right direction and make sense of all these unknowns to me! Thanks again everyone! Now I know.
Monica
tomshobby
Yoda
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Donn is right on about what billet is. However, it has come to mean a totally machined part to the general non-manufacturing community. And thus replacing a cast, stamped, or forged part that has minimal machining. A piece of cast, stamped, or forged material has additional strengthening characteristics. A cast piece generally has a "skin" that provides more strength and a center that provides resistance to permanent deformation and breaking. A stamped piece tends to attain added strength from the work hardening that happens in the corners and the geometry of the piece in its new shape. An example would be to fold a piece of paper and note how the crease effects the strength. Forging compressed the piece at the molecular level which can produce several changes in the material that make it stronger.
A completely machined part looses or at least decreases most of these characteristics. And it is the most expensive way to produce large quantities of parts. For a small quantity it is less expensive. The reason is that dies or molds do not need to be made (big bucks). But the cost will include things like CAD work, programming, possibly a jig or fixture, machine time, and the other overhead of the shop. And don't forget the cost of the extra material that becomes chips.
A completely machined part looses or at least decreases most of these characteristics. And it is the most expensive way to produce large quantities of parts. For a small quantity it is less expensive. The reason is that dies or molds do not need to be made (big bucks). But the cost will include things like CAD work, programming, possibly a jig or fixture, machine time, and the other overhead of the shop. And don't forget the cost of the extra material that becomes chips.
PC
Obi Wan
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from: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary
Main Entry: [3]billet
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English bylet, from Anglo-French billete, diminutive of bille log, of Celtic origin; akin to Old Irish bile landmark tree
Date: 15th century
1 a: a chunky piece of wood (as for firewood) bobsolete : cudgel
2 a: a bar of metal b: a piece of semifinished iron or steel nearly square in section made by rolling an ingot or bloom c: a section of nonferrous metal ingot hot-worked by forging, rolling, or extrusion d: a nonferrous casting suitable for rolling or extrusion
I have to agree with <span style="font-weight: bold">GregW</span>, a billet is just a block, ingot, slug or other generic, non-end-use-specific chunk of material. They’re typically delivered in some form that’s easy to handle and hold for processing.
I <span style="font-style: italic">partially</span> disagree with Donn’s description in that a billet can be deformation hardened (forged), just not to a near-net shape. It’s very common for billets to come as forged blocks, ingots, bar stock or rod stock.
I believe the current pop-culture infatuation with “billet” parts stems form their very cool custom-machined look, probably combined with a little (largely misunderstood) technology.
The wide availability of CNC machining has allowed a substantial cottage industry to pop up servicing the hot-rodding, motorcycling and bicycling communities. Many parts that were once made in traditional mass production from low grade materials can now be made practically in smaller quantities using high grade, high performance materials.
A part machined from forged billet of high quality material will typically be stronger that an equivalent cast part and will certainly be stronger than a part cast from low grade material. Add in the distinctive appearance and the mystique of “billet” parts was born.
Of course, when you machine a metal blank you weaken it compared to the original forging. So the strongest parts for the highest stress applications, like connecting rods, are forged to near-net shape, only machined where needed for precision mating and designed so that those areas that must be machined aren’t highly loaded. Really critical, really highly stressed bits, like bolt threads, are roll formed, <span style="font-style: italic">never</span> machined. :hammer:
A license plate frame is neither highly loaded, nor subjected to mechanical wear, reducing the advantages of metal construction. For maximum plate frame performance, but still maintaining high cost and good shininess :thumbsup:, I’d recommend a carbon fiber composite.
PC.
Main Entry: [3]billet
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English bylet, from Anglo-French billete, diminutive of bille log, of Celtic origin; akin to Old Irish bile landmark tree
Date: 15th century
1 a: a chunky piece of wood (as for firewood) bobsolete : cudgel
2 a: a bar of metal b: a piece of semifinished iron or steel nearly square in section made by rolling an ingot or bloom c: a section of nonferrous metal ingot hot-worked by forging, rolling, or extrusion d: a nonferrous casting suitable for rolling or extrusion
I have to agree with <span style="font-weight: bold">GregW</span>, a billet is just a block, ingot, slug or other generic, non-end-use-specific chunk of material. They’re typically delivered in some form that’s easy to handle and hold for processing.
I <span style="font-style: italic">partially</span> disagree with Donn’s description in that a billet can be deformation hardened (forged), just not to a near-net shape. It’s very common for billets to come as forged blocks, ingots, bar stock or rod stock.
I believe the current pop-culture infatuation with “billet” parts stems form their very cool custom-machined look, probably combined with a little (largely misunderstood) technology.
The wide availability of CNC machining has allowed a substantial cottage industry to pop up servicing the hot-rodding, motorcycling and bicycling communities. Many parts that were once made in traditional mass production from low grade materials can now be made practically in smaller quantities using high grade, high performance materials.
A part machined from forged billet of high quality material will typically be stronger that an equivalent cast part and will certainly be stronger than a part cast from low grade material. Add in the distinctive appearance and the mystique of “billet” parts was born.
Of course, when you machine a metal blank you weaken it compared to the original forging. So the strongest parts for the highest stress applications, like connecting rods, are forged to near-net shape, only machined where needed for precision mating and designed so that those areas that must be machined aren’t highly loaded. Really critical, really highly stressed bits, like bolt threads, are roll formed, <span style="font-style: italic">never</span> machined. :hammer:
A license plate frame is neither highly loaded, nor subjected to mechanical wear, reducing the advantages of metal construction. For maximum plate frame performance, but still maintaining high cost and good shininess :thumbsup:, I’d recommend a carbon fiber composite.
PC.
coldplugs
Darth Vader
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tomshobby said:
I programmed and cut this part years ago and it's a fair example of what you're talking about. It was made from an aluminum "billet" that weighed about 25 lbs - after machining it weighs about 12 oz. It's an airplane part and I think we made 5 of them. It needed 2 setups on a small 5 axis machine and was a ~bear~ because it became so flimsy near the end of the process. ISTR I estimated the coat at about $3000 to make just over 23 lbs of chips. A license plate holder would have been a lot easier.
I won't try to define a "billet" but I think PC is as close to correct as I could get.
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But it's sooo ELEGANT, John!!!
If th' client paid, 23 pounds of alloy scrap is a dinner "out". :laugh:
I was a-thinkin' on this today.... Like Henry Ford, if ya could cajole the supplier into sending a pre-sized "billet" it could be sliced like a loaf of bread, then each slice would be fed into a CNC for a repetitive operation. Could actually be cost effective.
...I ramble a lot lately... bein' 'jobless' can DO that. :wink:
If th' client paid, 23 pounds of alloy scrap is a dinner "out". :laugh:
I was a-thinkin' on this today.... Like Henry Ford, if ya could cajole the supplier into sending a pre-sized "billet" it could be sliced like a loaf of bread, then each slice would be fed into a CNC for a repetitive operation. Could actually be cost effective.
...I ramble a lot lately... bein' 'jobless' can DO that. :wink:
racingenglishcars
Darth Vader
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Sorry to not be in technical agreement with the southern california culture of making fancy shiny things with the terminology of billet. I don't belong to that culture and am not sure I want to.
Normally I would refer to Almar Næss Materiallære
https://ansatte.hin.no/ra/undervisn/mtrbearb/ra_kompendier/Staal_herd02.pdf
which is the book I used during my study, but in this case I can only refer to:
https://books.google.com/books?id=mRGORB4...ary_r&cad=0
Forged billet technically is forged stock.
But I'm sure "billet" sounds cool.
Normally I would refer to Almar Næss Materiallære
https://ansatte.hin.no/ra/undervisn/mtrbearb/ra_kompendier/Staal_herd02.pdf
which is the book I used during my study, but in this case I can only refer to:
https://books.google.com/books?id=mRGORB4...ary_r&cad=0
Forged billet technically is forged stock.
But I'm sure "billet" sounds cool.