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startech47
Jedi Knight
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The paint on my wife's 93 Trans Am is not very shiny. Saw the ad for the Turtle Wax Ice system. Is there anything better to use? Thanks, Phil
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best wax system?
- Thread starter startech47
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I was at a car show about a couple of months ago and was given some free auto wax sample packets of 3M Performance Finish. I have a 1 1/2 yr old paint job on my Midget and had a good wax on it. Decided to try the 3M on the hood. What a differance. Deep high gloss shine. I waxed the whole car and still have 3 packets left.
Rik
Rik
PC
Obi Wan
Offline
Although products are important, restoring a neglected finish is more about knowledge and technique than what brand chemicals you use.
There are a handful of things that you actually do restore/maintain paint. Which you do depends on the condition of your finish.
In general, you can:
<span style="font-weight: bold">Remove loose dirt and dust –</span> in other words, wash the car. Best to use a shampoo specifically designed as a car wash.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Remove stubbornly attached contaminants –</span> the stuff soap won’t remove. Depending on the gunk on the car, tree sap, road tar, bug guts, overspray, bird bombs, water spots, etc this could be chemical, using solvents or concentrated detergents, mechanical, using clay, or a combination of both. If you’ve never clayed the car do it. You’ll be amazed.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Remove defects in the surface –</span> oxidation, swirls, scratches, etching, etc. Anything from a mild polish to a heavy compound depending on the severity of the defects. In really severe cases sanding may be appropriate.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Apply something that improves appearance but doesn’t actually remove defects –</span> the least understood surface care activity, glazing. This is basically wiping oils onto the surface to give a deeper, “wetter” look but doesn’t, repair, restore or improve the surface. Glazing is strictly optional and on some finishes, totally pointless.
It can give a nice effect, especially on dark colors but it’s only temporary. Glazes are best used as “icing on the cake” to add that “little extra something” to a properly prepared surface. (Any time you hear somebody blather about how you “must” use 3M Imperial Hand Glaze to “repair” swirls, this is what it really does. Lots of body shops use it to hide shoddy work.)
<span style="font-weight: bold">Apply something to protect the finish –</span> Wax. Whether a natural wax or synthetic sealant, it’s added on top of a properly prepped finish for protection. No wax will make a bad finish look good. Any wax will look good on a good finish.
Those are the basic actions. There are also products that combine two or more actions together. A cleaner/wax, for example, will remove mild contamination and surface defects while adding protection.
Not all companies make products that address every step. If you have a favorite wax from a company that doesn’t make compounds or clay or something you’ll have to mix and match products from other companies. Mixing products between companies generally works fine as long as you know what the individual products do and how to use them.
Over the counter, you’re more likely to find Meguiar’s products that cover the range. But other companies have complete systems as well.
It sounds like your T/A is at least a bit oxidized. So I’d recommend starting out by washing and claying it. Then you can inspect the finish for condition and try some products to see what works for you.
pc.
There are a handful of things that you actually do restore/maintain paint. Which you do depends on the condition of your finish.
In general, you can:
<span style="font-weight: bold">Remove loose dirt and dust –</span> in other words, wash the car. Best to use a shampoo specifically designed as a car wash.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Remove stubbornly attached contaminants –</span> the stuff soap won’t remove. Depending on the gunk on the car, tree sap, road tar, bug guts, overspray, bird bombs, water spots, etc this could be chemical, using solvents or concentrated detergents, mechanical, using clay, or a combination of both. If you’ve never clayed the car do it. You’ll be amazed.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Remove defects in the surface –</span> oxidation, swirls, scratches, etching, etc. Anything from a mild polish to a heavy compound depending on the severity of the defects. In really severe cases sanding may be appropriate.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Apply something that improves appearance but doesn’t actually remove defects –</span> the least understood surface care activity, glazing. This is basically wiping oils onto the surface to give a deeper, “wetter” look but doesn’t, repair, restore or improve the surface. Glazing is strictly optional and on some finishes, totally pointless.
It can give a nice effect, especially on dark colors but it’s only temporary. Glazes are best used as “icing on the cake” to add that “little extra something” to a properly prepared surface. (Any time you hear somebody blather about how you “must” use 3M Imperial Hand Glaze to “repair” swirls, this is what it really does. Lots of body shops use it to hide shoddy work.)
<span style="font-weight: bold">Apply something to protect the finish –</span> Wax. Whether a natural wax or synthetic sealant, it’s added on top of a properly prepped finish for protection. No wax will make a bad finish look good. Any wax will look good on a good finish.
Those are the basic actions. There are also products that combine two or more actions together. A cleaner/wax, for example, will remove mild contamination and surface defects while adding protection.
Not all companies make products that address every step. If you have a favorite wax from a company that doesn’t make compounds or clay or something you’ll have to mix and match products from other companies. Mixing products between companies generally works fine as long as you know what the individual products do and how to use them.
Over the counter, you’re more likely to find Meguiar’s products that cover the range. But other companies have complete systems as well.
It sounds like your T/A is at least a bit oxidized. So I’d recommend starting out by washing and claying it. Then you can inspect the finish for condition and try some products to see what works for you.
pc.
OP
startech47
Jedi Knight
Offline
Thanks pc.
I agree the TA is a bit oxidized. The Ice system starts with a wash, followed by a clay system, and than an acrylic silicone wax. The wax is clear and is not supposed to leave the white residue.
I agree the TA is a bit oxidized. The Ice system starts with a wash, followed by a clay system, and than an acrylic silicone wax. The wax is clear and is not supposed to leave the white residue.
D
DougF
Guest
Guest
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Years ago, Road and Track published a study on car care products. The best car wash soaps at the time, early '80s, was Ivory liquid dish soap. They liked the ph, cleaning ability, availability and price.
If you don't have an electric buffer, 3M Hand Glaze is an excellent product for cleaning and prepping paint for wax. It works well on oxided paint as well. Rubbing compounds are good for stubborn problems. Just be careful not to rub the paint off.
Mothers Carnuba Wax still works great. I stay away from liquid waxes.
If you don't have an electric buffer, 3M Hand Glaze is an excellent product for cleaning and prepping paint for wax. It works well on oxided paint as well. Rubbing compounds are good for stubborn problems. Just be careful not to rub the paint off.
Mothers Carnuba Wax still works great. I stay away from liquid waxes.
A
aerog
Guest
Guest
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PC nailed it pretty much. Hate to be negative toward R&T, but using dish washing soap isn't a brilliant idea. Ivory is better than dawn, but buying a product made for the job is going to ensure it doesn't strip wax. Use something good like NXT (Meguiars) car wash.
The silicon problem is a myth too, to a point. Manufacturers use silicons in their products all the time as part of their product make-up but don't advertise it because of the negative connotations. Even carnauba waxes have it. Products labeled "paint shop safe" (or something similar) aren't supposed to have any silicons, but the reality is any residual "silicons" are removed in paint prep anyway, especially if the car is properly stripped. Already been through that with my Miata. They had to blend in paint on a door and the trunk - absolutely no problems, it looks like new and that car has had just about every popular wax product on it.
More to the original question though: is there something better than "ice"? You bet there is. Go check out the myriad of fine products available from places like www.autogeek.net and take your pick. The perfect shine isn't a magic formula they put in a bottle though, as PC wrote, there's sometimes more to it.
I did a short essay on my efforts to restore the finish on our '87 Pontiac a few years ago, it's still on the forum here. That was all hand-done.
Not that I'm particularly advocating this product, but as an experiment I polished out one of our airplanes a couple of years ago using Nu-Finish. Some people love it, some people hate it. It's cheap, been around forever, and you can get it at most drug-stores. I'm not sure I'd use it on my car but... anyway, this is our 1963 Twin Cessna, I think it was painted in the '70s. The paint is horrible and it spent most of it's life outside. I used a Porter Cable polisher with the stock white foam pad that came with it. Your '93 is probably clear-coat paint and you may not want to polish it much to avoid cutting the clear, but a little elbow grease might do wonders:
Before:
After:
On the fuselage I started at the front and worked my way back. You can see the difference here:
On another airplane that has horribly flat paint I tried Nu Finish again, by hand this time. This was literally a 2-minute job on this stablizer-tip:
Before:
After:
Getting the shine is hard. Keeping it is fun. FWIW I've used a number of things to prep my MGB but I've always finished up with a top coat of Pinnacle Souverän, it's absolutely to die for
The silicon problem is a myth too, to a point. Manufacturers use silicons in their products all the time as part of their product make-up but don't advertise it because of the negative connotations. Even carnauba waxes have it. Products labeled "paint shop safe" (or something similar) aren't supposed to have any silicons, but the reality is any residual "silicons" are removed in paint prep anyway, especially if the car is properly stripped. Already been through that with my Miata. They had to blend in paint on a door and the trunk - absolutely no problems, it looks like new and that car has had just about every popular wax product on it.
More to the original question though: is there something better than "ice"? You bet there is. Go check out the myriad of fine products available from places like www.autogeek.net and take your pick. The perfect shine isn't a magic formula they put in a bottle though, as PC wrote, there's sometimes more to it.
I did a short essay on my efforts to restore the finish on our '87 Pontiac a few years ago, it's still on the forum here. That was all hand-done.
Not that I'm particularly advocating this product, but as an experiment I polished out one of our airplanes a couple of years ago using Nu-Finish. Some people love it, some people hate it. It's cheap, been around forever, and you can get it at most drug-stores. I'm not sure I'd use it on my car but... anyway, this is our 1963 Twin Cessna, I think it was painted in the '70s. The paint is horrible and it spent most of it's life outside. I used a Porter Cable polisher with the stock white foam pad that came with it. Your '93 is probably clear-coat paint and you may not want to polish it much to avoid cutting the clear, but a little elbow grease might do wonders:
Before:
After:
On the fuselage I started at the front and worked my way back. You can see the difference here:
On another airplane that has horribly flat paint I tried Nu Finish again, by hand this time. This was literally a 2-minute job on this stablizer-tip:
Before:
After:
Getting the shine is hard. Keeping it is fun. FWIW I've used a number of things to prep my MGB but I've always finished up with a top coat of Pinnacle Souverän, it's absolutely to die for
BabaKahawa
Jedi Knight
Offline
PC;
What about a newly painted car. Is clay the way to go, can I follow the guide lines you mentioned?
What about a newly painted car. Is clay the way to go, can I follow the guide lines you mentioned?
PC
Obi Wan
Offline
Coating manufacturers all recommend waiting some period of time before using a wax or sealant. I’ve seen manufacturers’ recommendations ranging from 60 to 120 days. So just being the conservative sort, I always recommend 120+ days.
Other than that, you can do the other steps on fresh paint. If you use paint shop safe products you can do them <span style="font-style: italic">between coats</span> while painting.
The caveat with working on really new paint (as in minutes to hours) is that it may be too soft too work effectively.
Clay will definitely work on new paint. It’s often called “overspray clay” because one of its intended uses in body shops is to remove overspray residue (dry spray).
pc.
Other than that, you can do the other steps on fresh paint. If you use paint shop safe products you can do them <span style="font-style: italic">between coats</span> while painting.
The caveat with working on really new paint (as in minutes to hours) is that it may be too soft too work effectively.
Clay will definitely work on new paint. It’s often called “overspray clay” because one of its intended uses in body shops is to remove overspray residue (dry spray).
pc.
BabaKahawa
Jedi Knight
Offline
Alright PC,
Great to hear about that
thanks for insight!!
Great to hear about that
thanks for insight!!