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Are we the last generation of restorers?

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CraigLandrum

CraigLandrum

Jedi Hopeful
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The TR3A I am restoring with my son represents a task that - while complex and time consuming - is doable by just about anyone using tools, materials, and parts that are readily available. The same can be said for the many other things I've restored over the years - pipe organs, player pianos, old cameras, mantel clocks, and so on. The common theme here is that all of these items use parts that can be scrounged or fabricated or cleaned or manufactured in a basement shop.

But try popping the hood on a 2008 model automobile. You are presented with a rats nest of emission control, fuel injected, computerized complexity using parts that a home shop hasn't a prayer of being able to duplicate. Add unibody construction and plastic bumpers, etc, etc and I wonder if 50 years from now anyone will be able to restore a 2008 automobile. It will likely prove close to impossible to obtain many of the specially made computer chips used on modern cars. I know this because a year or two ago I built and restored a 1976 original Altair computer complete with an ASR33 Teletype, 8-inch disk drives, and paper tape reader, and the replacement chips I needed were no longer made - I had to scrounge around obsolete parts houses to find them - and these were common parts back in the day.

TVs, cell phones, computers, toaster ovens - all disposable now.

So - are we restoration fans a dying breed, living in the disposable age? Or am I wrong and the smart folks in 2058 will actually find a way (or a reason) to restore a 2008 automobile? Or will they be re-re-re-restoring the mid 1900's cars we are working on today?

What do you think?
 
All of the above, IMO.

If there is a demand, someone will be duplicating even ECUs with currently available parts. There's not a lot of "rocket science" in there anyway, the problem is (mostly) just that the car makers refuse to give us the information. Coming up with enough logic to make it run isn't any harder (if you know how) than making custom upholstery (for example).

I kind of dropped out, but for a time I lurked on a forum where folks were rolling their own ECUs, in many cases by hacking OEM ECUs and substituting their own programs.
 
Personally, I'm not interested in restoring anything with a unitized chassis.
 
Nope, a trip to the Brit car gatherings show quite a few younger types happily buying and restoring. First car I ever did a frame off on was a 1927 LaSalle, in the mid '60s. I was essentially on my own. Not today. Now there are more parts, more sources, more info available than ever before. Foroums prolifirate, car shows abound, in short I would say the hobby is VERY alive and well.

Tinkerman
 
Interesting question, Craig.

I think folks will be restoring cars for a long time. The number of restorers will diminish over a long period, but they will remain.

For example, in western Europe there are clubs (guilds) of folks who restore old carriages and coaches. I was in Germany/Austria last summer and saw a group that restored carriages from the 15th century and older. It's a fairly prominent hobby there, and here also. And, plenty of people restore (very) old boats and ships. Not at all unusual to find folks restoring and re-creating 10th century Viking longboats, etc.

It's inevitable that the restoration of these classic LBCs will slow down over the years, but it will be a long time before it ceases, if ever.

A hundred, or maybe even two hundred years from now, I'd bet a paycheck that there will be an enthusiastic cadre of LBC drivers and restorers. It will become more challenging as parts suppliers fade away, but then, real enthusiasts love a challenge, don't they!

Why not??
 
I've broached this subject in conversation many times. I can't imagine there will be too many 2008 "classics" per-se in fifty years. For just the reasons you cite, Craig. Parts availability for mid '80's cars are scarce NOW. Honda would be about the only exception simply because aftermarket parts are still lucrative enough due to the production numbers of the cars. That too will change, certes.

Then again, the argument can be made that in the mid and late '60's the American muscle cars were largely considered "disposable" (i.e.: crash or bend it, shrug and go get a new one) but now bring some astronomic money as they're passed under BJ gavels.

As for LBC's, I think they'll be around longer than the "contemporary" lines. Fools like us make them better than when new, they are receiving a resurrection of sorts. Their simplicity will be their salvation. As long as fossil fuels are still around, that is. :wink:
 
DrEntropy said:
Then again, the argument can be made that in the mid and late '60's the American muscle cars were largely considered "disposable" (i.e.: crash or bend it, shrug and go get a new one) but now bring some astronomic money as they're passed under BJ gavels.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the ONLY reason they're bringing six-figures-+ is that we Boomers lusted after them when we were teens, and couldn't have one. Now that we've all this disposable income (!), we're treating ourselves, and cost isn't a factor.

I don't see the same fascination in the teens of today.

Our cars as museum pieces in the future? Probably. But maybe not much more than that... :frown:
 
What if we start restoring people? Hey, you can get donor organs from China now, so not to far fetched. But then the thought of me restored, or worse partially restored, with my parts all over the place for years. But once restored, I leak fluids, choke and sputter when I get up, and things break easily if pushed to hard.

Seems to me it would be like being perpetually 90, but looking 20....
 
"and I wonder if 50 years from now anyone will be able to restore a 2008 automobile."

I wonder if, 50 years from now, the unavailability of fuel for a 2008 automobile would render such a project ridiculous. Honestly, I am feeling like I waited about ten years too long to do the TR3 I'm hoping to finish this year.
 
Mickey Richaud said:
DrEntropy said:
Then again, the argument can be made that in the mid and late '60's the American muscle cars were largely considered "disposable" (i.e.: crash or bend it, shrug and go get a new one) but now bring some astronomic money as they're passed under BJ gavels.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but the ONLY reason they're bringing six-figures-+ is that we Boomers lusted after them when we were teens, and couldn't have one. Now that we've all this disposable income (!), we're treating ourselves, and cost isn't a factor.

I don't see the same fascination in the teens of today.

Our cars as museum pieces in the future? Probably. But maybe not much more than that... :frown:
Click to expand...


I tend to agree with Mickey. I think that we have or are reaching the zenith of the hobby as the Baby Boomers are pretty much getting full tilt into the LBC scene, most of us on the forum being at or over 50 and reliving our youth. My sons think my car is cute, but have no history with the British sports car as I did. Once we all die off, the hobby will become a minor passion for just a few out there.

What would ya'll guess the average age is on the BCF anyway? I'm soon to be 62 and would think I am somewhere near the mean. Or is it that I just am mean.
 
I'm a very average 58...
 
I can think of a number of 2008 classics, including the Aston Martin DB9, Z06 Corvette, and the Jaguar XK8. These cars are beautiful, and their appeal will be everlasting, in my opinion.
 
rlandrum said:
I can think of a number of 2008 classics, including the Aston Martin DB9, Z06 Corvette, and the Jaguar XK8. These cars are beautiful, and their appeal will be everlasting, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree, there are also other modern classics that people will be still running and restoring like the Miata, RX8, BMW Z3, Honda S2000, the new Soltice and of course the whole new crop of 'muscle cars' that are coming out, the new Charger, the new Camaro and of course the current version of the Mustang.
And then there are the lucky ones in the UK & Europe that have some modern sportscars that we don't see in the US like the new TVRs, the MGTF and Fiat brechetta(SP?). People in the UK&Europe will probably be keeping and restoring those 30 years from now also.
 
I've had many co-workers in the last few years who are car nuts and who are young. When they get to be over 40, with families and reduced budgets for their car habit, they'll use their skills to restore the cars that they know and love.

The difference is that they now customize the fuel injection and electronic ignition systems using a battery of computers and test equipment that makes older guys shake their heads and walk away muttering. These young guys think nothing of analyzing scope traces to diagnose if injectors are improperly controlled or firing weakly, but carburettors, especially constant velocity carbs, are a deeply puzzling technological problem for them. I have been held in awe because I understand how SU carbs work.

As long as there are cool cars, there will be guys who want to restore them when they are old and worn out. This was true in my grandpa's day, when he restored a Model T for the fun of it, or my other grandpa who put a D-type racing engine in his XK-120 just because the engine was lying around some shop in Portland (that was in the Fifties).

Scott
 
Interesting thread - I think there is another generation of LBC nuts making its way through the pipeline. Maybe fewer of us that the boomers, but I think there is a whole crew of folks like me in our early 40's that are just getting started.

At least in SoCal it seems like interest in classic cars has really picked up in the last couple of years. At the local shows there are maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the people there now my age or younger.

The straight forward nature of the cars, and existing strong parts supply, I think makes our cars more likely to be sought after compared to the later models.

I think we'll see fewer, but bigger, and regional specialists and suppliers however...
 
Craig, I had a similar experience building a 1970s design keyboard synthesizer: a lot of the semiconductors that were common back then are NLA now. That was the major challenge: hunting down things like noise diodes and first generation IC audio mixer and amp chips.

On the other hand, for the electronics in modern cars, I expect that, since the functionality of the circuits is well documented, it will be easy to simulate/emulate them in the future if necessary without access to the original parts.
 
Just to answer the age issue, I'm just the ripe young age of 29.
 
May I jump in from a different perspective?

I work in the nostalgia business restoring and maintaining steam rail road locomotives.

The last generation of railroaders that knew steam is dying as we speak, each year fewer are coming, and the ones that are coming are frail and stooped.

The newer generations have no understanding of the where's and why's. Why it takes so much work, why you just don't push a button, why it costs so much to ride a 4.5 mile stretch of railroad.

I think the car hobby will follow the same way. Model T's are coming down in price, because the people who wanted one are dying, 40's and 50's cars are going the same way. Will there be a wave of nostalgia in 30 years for today's cars? Only time will tell, personally I think that there will always be a lunatic fringe element restoring anything, (yes I am saying that we LBC'ers are a lunatic fringe, just ask my wife :smile: ) Parts suppliers will spring up to feed a market. I have friends in the electronics and programming business that think nothing of coming up with a ECM from scratch.

FWIW, I am 47, the son helping me on the car is 15. I have several friends in the hobby that are younger than I am.

Thanks for listening.

Steve Spangler
71 MK IV "Jehu"

Lancaster PA
 
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