An ignorance question

[Tinster]

I'm puzzled and maybe the TR experts can help me.
My question is breakdowns. After weeks of repairs-

My car will start instantly on the first turn of the key.
Warm up idle to a nice smooth 800 rpm at 160* water temp..

I enjoy driving the car here and there for several hours.
Stop by the Biker Bar for a cold one and head home. Park
in the garage and the car shuts down instantly. No run-on.

The next day, the car starts easily, warms to 800 rpms and
then breaksdown on the side of the road a few miles from home.

I then spend several weeks/months replacing the entire fuel
delivery or the ignition system.

I get a few more hours of drive time and the dead car process is repeated.

My question- what happens with theses cars as they cool down
that causes components to fail when the car is parked and not running?

My car either runs great or it suddenly dies. no warning
that a breakdown is coming.

thanks,

d

 

[emmett1010]

Dale;
You really need to be a pretty fair mechanic.
Since you are already completely familiar with the fuel and ignition system, you have 75% of it licked.
Valves will get tight, vacuum leaks will occur, old parts will fail, but at some point, probably just around the corner, things will smooth out, and either not fail, or you'll know whats wrong, and how to fix it.
I had a Healey that I'd leave the rear seat cover loose, so that I could rap the fuel pump to entice it to run. I drove my MGB home with one hand, while I held the ignition switch tightly to keep the parts from springing loose.
My LBC's are the only cars that I bring tools, and basic repair parts.
Having said that I find that after a few, (many) repairs finally one day it'll all do fine, for quite a while, until that hammer falls again.
Part of the culture-
Emmett

 

[tdskip]

Coils can fail when they get hot, but I think you've replace a couple of those already.

When she dies is it immediate, or does she stumble first?

 

[Silverghost]

Just thinking out loud here......and if this train of thought has been brought up before, foregive me.

As an engineer, I am used to thinking about how things work, function, etc. And there are specs and settings for everything to make sure things are built, assembled, etc. correctly.

Dale, as I understand it, you have gone through and rebuilt, repaired, or replaced almost everything on Crypty. Set everything to "factory" specs, etc. Cars are moving, breathing, vibrating machines. They need to have room to "wiggle". If everything is buttoned down to the last thousandth, there is no room for "wiggle" and the weakest point is going to give. Is it possible that all the new components and everything that has been rebuilt, replaced, etc. are too new and just haven't had time to get used to each other yet? Just like new shoes are uncomfortable the first time or two you wear them, they will soon fit just right and feel great. Perhaps Crypty is uncomfortable in his new clothes and just needs time. I know this seems somewhat contradictory and may not make a lot of sense, it just hit me that you may just be going through birthing pains compounded by the fact that EVERYTHING is new and fresh.

This may or may not be helpful, just may offer a different way of looking at the issues around Crypty and open a door to resolving your woes.

BTW, is Crypty a He or a She, cuz I keep refering to "Him" and if it's "Her", I don't want to go there! Crypty is sensitive enough without me adding fuel to the fire!! :laugh: LOL

 

[Brosky]

I prefer to think of that demonic possession as more of an "IT", than a he or she.

 

[Tinster]

Just thinking out loud here.Perhaps Crypty is uncomfortable in his new clothes and just needs time. I know this seems somewhat contradictory and may not make a lot of sense, it just hit me that you may just be going through birthing pains compounded by the fact that EVERYTHING is new and fresh.

This may or may not be helpful, just may offer a different way of looking at the issues around Crypty and open a door to resolving your woes.

BTW, is Crypty a He or a She, cuz I keep refering to "Him" and if it's "Her", I don't want to go there! Crypty is sensitive enough without me adding fuel to the fire!! :laugh: LOL

<span style="color: #990000">You know Peter, as an architect I have been
thinking along those same lines. But I've been pondering the
reverse. Since I know so little about auto mechanics, maybe
I have rebuilt this car with just enough slightly out of
tolerance slop here and there, that entire package is bodged
up.

But I also see your point of view because I really am a
perfectionist when it comes to this car rebuild. The
Lord knows I don't cut corners or spare the $$$ pesos.

I just don't understand how the car can run good
at 10:00 PM and then have to be towed off the highway
the very next morning.

BTW: Crypty is a nasty, mean old cuss of a SOB.
I'd have kicked a woman out long ago and got a new one.
No offense to fairer sex intended.

</span>

 

[poolboy]

There are a lot of components that make up an automobile, but if it runs good, stops running, and then runs good again, repeating the cycle, you can narrow down the problem to either the fuel delivery or the ignition components more often than not.
I've heard of a "dog whisperer" and a "horse whisperer". Too bad there's not a "car whisperer" to discover why this particular TR6 is demanding so much attention.

 

[rlandrum]

In addition to the suggestions above about fuel and ignition, there are a number of other things that can result in sudden loss off power. One such problem is that of engine ground, which sounds like it might be your problem, especially if the problem is hit or miss.

The basic ingredients to make any engine run are air, fuel, and spark. If you're confident about the last two, then the air is all that's left. Problems here are varied, and hard to assess. Air filters can become clogged, not just by dirt, but by fuel, which then evaporates. Exhaust can fill the engine block, creating crank case pressure, which can manifest itself as reduced power, stalling, and oil pressure issues. You might have stuck lifters, resulting in low (or no) compression on some cylinders. And what goes in must come out, so the exhaust system should be checked too. No kinks or big dents and nothing rattling around inside the exhaust chamber.

You'll find it eventually.

 

[toysrrus]

Hi Folks,

Just dropping in to see what Dale has to say these days.

I really feel there is a major voltage loss.

As in one of my thds in another "Crypt Saga"; I had the same situation with a XK 140 Jag. It would start, run & whenever it felt like it; She would die!

Ultimately, Changed Coils & all was well.

Could it be possible that all that "Salt Air" in PR could be causing moisture & super fast corrosion at some/all of the connectors, somewhere?

Best Wishes,

Russ

 

[Tinster]

Randy- thanks for tip-
I also had that thought and that's why I am going to
cut out PDO Pedro's muffler as one of my diagnostic
tasks. This last breakdown I told Banjo my oil pressure
was running about 20 psi less than normal. 65 vrs 45

PS: Salt water corrosion at the connectors are way
down my list of look-see. The system is too new but
yes still a possibility.

When I rewired the car 100% I used dielectic grease
on every fitting and connector.

thanks

d

 

[NickMorgan]

Dale,
I suspect we are all likely to confuse you rather than help by offering different advice. Certainly new components can wear in, such as the heal on the points that I notice on my TR3 only touches at the bottom of the distributor cam when they are new. Despite lubrication I find that they close up due to wear.
Break downs such as you describe can be caused by electrical items heating up as suggested by various others. Condensers, coils and poor connections can all heat up and then break down or lose electrical connection. You may have put electrolytic grease on the connections, but how well are the wires attached to the spades. The earth is a chief suspect, and so is the low tension wire.
I had a friend with a TR6 that broke down a couple of times on a run. When I pulled the central HT lead out of the distributor, it had corroded between the wire and the connector.
I once serviced my own TR3 before a rally and after 800 miles it started to misfire on the way home. The car stopped a couple of times on the way home, but started again after 10 minutes or so. The car got me home, but finally died about 10 feet from the garage, so it wasn't far to push it. Turned out to be the condenser.
My friend has a TR4 and he had problems with engaging gears when the car was hot. That one turned out to be the flexible hose that when warm softened enough to bulge and stop the slave cylinder moving far enough.
So things do fail and then appear to work OK. I imagine that you have done everything in the fuel system, so I won't suggest anything there. It does sound as though the problem you had before the fuel tank episode has not been resolved.
Good luck to you Dale. We are all rooting for you.
Nick

 

[mailbox]

Dale, you should write a book about Crypty. That would be a "interesting" read.

 

[Banjo]

Dale,
Have you checked out all the relays yet?
Update to others trying to help..
Dale gave me a shout the day Crypty went down last. Described the symptoms. After thinking about it my thoughts turned to electrics. The car starts and runs fine for 15-20 seconds, then starts to die off like you turned off the key. (the whole time there is visible fuel in the filter) Sometimes it may bakfire(My thought to that was like the ignition system made one last effort that popped the unburnt gasses in the exhaust)
Now I thought to myself, that every time I had a car do that to me, I banged my head off the wall checking fuel and timing and whatnot only to find out it was a relay shutting the ignition down.
But Triumphes don't have relays in the iggy system you say.
Ahhhhh! but Dales does! he had the Dan Masters "power Block" setup. Where all your switches run relays instead of being direct wired to the circuits.
My bet is find the relay that runs the ignition system, and you'll find the "kill switch". Keep swapping those relays till you find the ignition one. It may be somthing else, but that's where I'd start.
Next I'd check the control side if the ignition relay (the ignition switch), and the power feed to the circuit side. It should be running through a fuse.
Sorrry I diden't answer your call on Saturday Dale. this weekend was Jam packed with stuff, and my phone started vibrating in my pocket right in the middle of a song I was playing with a group in front of about 100 people. I coulden't answer. hehehehe.
I'll try to give you a holler after work tomorrow. or at lunch if I can.

 

[DrEntropy]

...I ain't sayin' NOTHIN' 'bout overcomplicating a simple electrical system with "modern" stuff like RELAYS...

 

[DNK]

 

[Deleted member 8284]

This is a different tack, born from experience. Debris in the fuel tank? I had similar erratic symptoms with my '73 GT6. The car would be running fine, and then just give up the ghost. Sometimes it would be weeks between incidents. Othertimes days. It turned out to be debris in the gas tank accumulating in the fuel line between the tank on the engine bay filter starving the engine of gas. I'd pull the fuel line off the filter in the engine bay, and enough fuel would run to convince me all was OK and gas was getting through. It was, but not enough, and the filter never clogged because the blockage was upstream. I back-flushed the fuel line//gas tank from the engine bay with an air line one day, which cleared the system temporarily and showed me how the fuel should really be flowing. Once I pulled the tank, about 15 minutes in a GT6, and inspected it, all became clear (literally.) Just a thought.

 

[Tinster]

Thanks Don, Thanks Mark, Thanks all

end of this thread..........................

dale