TR2/3/3A Alignment woes

[deuce]

Hi Folks.. Here's what I did.. Using a very fine thread like string between two jack stands, I measured very closely the distance to the rear wheel. Making the string exactly parallel to the rear wheel. Then using the string at the front wheel and with the steering wheel straight ahead I set the front wheel to 1/16 - 1/8 toe in. Same thing on the other side. Seems perfect. When I take it for a test drive it was wrong. To go straight, I must keep the wheel turned significantly to the right and it's difficult to keep it going straight. I have done this twice. What am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance

 

[charleyf]

Hi Folks.. Here's what I did.. Using a very fine thread like string between two jack stands, I measured very closely the distance to the rear wheel. Making the string exactly parallel to the rear wheel. Then using the string at the front wheel and with the steering wheel straight ahead I set the front wheel to 1/16 - 1/8 toe in. Same thing on the other side. Seems perfect. When I take it for a test drive it was wrong. To go straight, I must keep the wheel turned significantly to the right and it's difficult to keep it going straight. I have done this twice. What am I doing wrong? Thanks in advance

What work has been recently done to the rear axle or front end of the car? Why did you feel the need to align the front end?

Charley

 

[deuce]

Hi Charley. Yeah well, I am trying to finish a complete restoration. I mean the frame was laying on the ground. The front end is pretty much new parts.. bushes, tie rod ends, shocks. I didn't do anything to the rear axle assembly except clean out the differential case, and fresh oil..but it was off the car. So, alignment is just a part of putting the car back together. Thanks, George

 

[mctriumph]

The truth is that a Tr3 is a ZERO castor suspension system from back in the dark ages.
If your car has EVER bumped a curb it has a"set back" on that side.This imparts a negative
castor on this damaged side.
It is imperative that you go to a competent front end shop and get all your angles read
and printed out,so that an accurate assessment of the issue can be made.
If your problem is less than one degree, there is good news.Tr4a suspension bolts on in a few hours
As long as there is less than one degree of cross castor the car will drive fine.
If you have more than one degree it will take a frame shop/new parts.
Been there done that.
Mad dog

 

[bobhustead]

When I adjusted my toe in to 1/8, the car was all over the road. I replaced all wearable components in the front end and set toe in again. Been fine ever since. My experience with two cars is that TR3s will accept a lot of "tire bumping" abuse without noticeable harm.
Bob

 

[charleyf]

It is also possible to put the rear axle on the frame incorrectly causing it to be crooked/ misaligned. An alignment shop could save you a lot of time and answer questions.
Charley

 

[deuce]

To All.. Thanks for the input. Maybe I just have to sneek up on it. The first time I tried it with strings the test drive changed both fronts. The second time only the right side changed.. the driver side remained within a 1/16 from where I set it. Is that possible? Could there be that much .. call it backlash.. in that steering system. I'll set it again..
To Mad Dog..are you talking about converting to the rack and pinion system?

 

[deuce]

It is also possible to put the rear axle on the frame incorrectly causing it to be crooked/ misaligned. An alignment shop could save you a lot of time and answer questions.
Charley

I'm not a master mech, but when I reinstalled the rear axle assembly there was only one way it would fit. I wish I had a lift....

 

[mctriumph]

No I am speaking of a possible fix for a minor set-back of the front suspension.
It is VERY easy to miss such slight collision damage during even the best restoration.
I have done it on my own car. The .5 degrees negative castor makes the car pull towards the
good side.and is hard to drive to say the least.
By bolting on the trunnions,control arms and ball joints from the 4a you add 2 deg positive
castor. This leaves one side with 1.5 and the other 2.0 pos. Drives perfectly, saves a frame pull .
Mad dog

 

[charleyf]

Deuce,
That is correct that there is only one way to attach the rear axle. But getting the axle located on the centering bolt in the springs is not always achieved. If one side is off then your rear axle is not centered forward. Because of the force of the springs it makes centering the axle very difficult to see that it is in fact centered on that bolt.
Charley

 

[CJD]

Deja Vue all over again.

Deuce, plz read my response on your first posting of this! I don't know why this thread diverted into discussions of the rear end for a front end alignment!?! I see no reason to suspect a rear end problem from your posts. My response will get you on the road with a straight wheel in about 10 minutes...

 

[Tybalt]

No I am speaking of a possible fix for a minor set-back of the front suspension.
It is VERY easy to miss such slight collision damage during even the best restoration.
I have done it on my own car. The .5 degrees negative castor makes the car pull towards the
good side.and is hard to drive to say the least.
By bolting on the trunnions,control arms and ball joints from the 4a you add 2 deg positive
castor. This leaves one side with 1.5 and the other 2.0 pos. Drives perfectly, saves a frame pull .
Mad dog

Another advantage of going to the 4A suspension parts is that you can substitute XJ6 ball joints for the TR ones. The XJ6 ball joint bodies are slightly narrower and you can get a bit of castor adjustment by shimming the ball joint fore and aft between the upper front suspension arms. Just be aware that the XJ ball joints are set up for 7/16" bolts instead of the 3/8" bolts used by Triumph so you will need to open up the holes for a very slight interference fit/very slight clearance fit for those 7/16" bolts.

 

[deuce]

Deja Vue all over again.

Deuce, plz read my response on your first posting of this! I don't know why this thread diverted into discussions of the rear end for a front end alignment!?! I see no reason to suspect a rear end problem from your posts. My response will get you on the road with a straight wheel in about 10 minutes...

Hi CJD.. I had problems posting this thread resulting in multiple postings of the same thing. The administrator caught this and informed me he had deleted all but one of the copies... So I think your response to my question went out with multiple copies. I know it could be a pain but could you repeat your response. Or was your response in another thread. I read on a lot of different methods to correct alignment and the string method was the only one I thought I could follow start to finish and here I am. Thanks

 

[CJD]

No Prob:

"Your technique will get the toe correct, but as you see, not necessarily the straight ahead alignment. It's easy to fix, though...

You have to bring the wheels to the right, so loosen the clamps and lengthen the right rod about 1/2 turn, and shorten the Left rod the exact same 1/2 turn. This will bring the wheels to the right, so your steering wheel will move towards center, while retaining the alignment you worked on. I usually do my alignment on a straight, level stretch of driveway or street, and leave the clamps loose. To test, hold your steering wheel at center and let the car roll forward on the level road for about 50 feet to see how your correction did. Then roll it back and adjust the tie rods equally as needed to bring the wheels to center with the steering wheel. I save time by leaving the clamps loose until my test roll is perfect...and then I tighten them to lock in your adjustment before you drive. As long as you turn the tie rods equally, your alignment will remain the same.

Note: A little extra toe IN will not affect driveability. Any toe OUT will make the car drive terribly...it will dart back and forth and follow any bump or grain in the road. So the motto is, always err to the toe in direction."

 

[deuce]

No Prob:

"Your technique will get the toe correct, but as you see, not necessarily the straight ahead alignment. It's easy to fix, though...

You have to bring the wheels to the right, so loosen the clamps and lengthen the right rod about 1/2 turn, and shorten the Left rod the exact same 1/2 turn. This will bring the wheels to the right, so your steering wheel will move towards center, while retaining the alignment you worked on. I usually do my alignment on a straight, level stretch of driveway or street, and leave the clamps loose. To test, hold your steering wheel at center and let the car roll forward on the level road for about 50 feet to see how your correction did. Then roll it back and adjust the tie rods equally as needed to bring the wheels to center with the steering wheel. I save time by leaving the clamps loose until my test roll is perfect...and then I tighten them to lock in your adjustment before you drive. As long as you turn the tie rods equally, your alignment will remain the same.

Note: A little extra toe IN will not affect driveability. Any toe OUT will make the car drive terribly...it will dart back and forth and follow any bump or grain in the road. So the motto is, always err to the toe in direction."

Copied, printed. I will carry it down to my little shop and chew on it for awhile. I have a gravel drive. I'll think about that too. Thanks

 

[CJD]

A gravel drive makes it difficult to tell straight, unless it is very compacted. It only takes a handful of tools, and a towel to lay on while turning the tie rod sleeves. If I remember, the clamps are 1/2". I use a large vise grip or large open end wrench to turn the sleeves. You can put together a little tool pack in the towel and find an unused parking lot to set up a 50' run. Good luck.