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An acquaintance of mine has a 72 Jag XKE roadster, V 12,that he is considering selling. It has been awhile since I have seen the car, but there is some fender damage but little or no rust. It has sat in a covered in a carport for many years. Probably needs new interior,top, paint, brakes, etc. The car has not been started in many years, probably needs a fair amount of work on the engine. Can anyone tell me about the V 12 engine. How much to rebuild the engine? Any ideas what this car might be worth. I assume a frame off restoration would be expensive, $30K to $40K. I would appreciate any input. thanks.
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72 XKE V 12
- Thread starter shorn
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To give you an idea, my inlaws recently purchased a '73 Coupe which had 22K original miles. It had receipts for many thousands of dollars of work in the last couple years.
Beyond the purchase price, they're already in multiple thousand dollars and haven't cracked open the engine, (except for a transmission seat and a few easy access gaskets up top.)
Series III parts are not that expensive -- when compared to, say, enriched uranium or a MLB franchise. Compared to Triumph, Chevy or Ford parts, they are expensive and hard to find. (Look at the cost of a piston and multiply by twelve...then go try to find a voltage regulator!)
If the car needs new interior, top, paint, brakes...and it hasn't run, it most likely needs new gaskets throughout the engine, as well as rear-end. It also needs new hoses. Figure you're also in for four Stromberg 175CD rebuild kits.
A real "frame-off" resto on one of these cars -CAN- be done for $40K, but since a paint job commensurate with the type of car should cost$4-6K minimum, and there are so many other expensive parts and possible gremlins to work out - for the overall quality, you're probably looking at $60K minimum for a show-car result.
A regional show-winner caliber XKE Series III carries a value of $52,500, with a normal local-show quality car around $30Kish. A national concours car will be $75K, but you'll spend $100K+ creating this car.
And the largest problem: finding someone to work on these cars. Even European car specialists tend to botch work on V12 Jags (at least that's what we've seen here, and heard from other owners.)
Which is why it always makes sense to buy someone else's frame-off resto.
But if you can get the car for next to nothing (like, say, $5,000,) it might be worth "the risk," and see if you can get it going cheaply.
Beyond the purchase price, they're already in multiple thousand dollars and haven't cracked open the engine, (except for a transmission seat and a few easy access gaskets up top.)
Series III parts are not that expensive -- when compared to, say, enriched uranium or a MLB franchise. Compared to Triumph, Chevy or Ford parts, they are expensive and hard to find. (Look at the cost of a piston and multiply by twelve...then go try to find a voltage regulator!)
If the car needs new interior, top, paint, brakes...and it hasn't run, it most likely needs new gaskets throughout the engine, as well as rear-end. It also needs new hoses. Figure you're also in for four Stromberg 175CD rebuild kits.
A real "frame-off" resto on one of these cars -CAN- be done for $40K, but since a paint job commensurate with the type of car should cost$4-6K minimum, and there are so many other expensive parts and possible gremlins to work out - for the overall quality, you're probably looking at $60K minimum for a show-car result.
A regional show-winner caliber XKE Series III carries a value of $52,500, with a normal local-show quality car around $30Kish. A national concours car will be $75K, but you'll spend $100K+ creating this car.
And the largest problem: finding someone to work on these cars. Even European car specialists tend to botch work on V12 Jags (at least that's what we've seen here, and heard from other owners.)
Which is why it always makes sense to buy someone else's frame-off resto.
But if you can get the car for next to nothing (like, say, $5,000,) it might be worth "the risk," and see if you can get it going cheaply.
Sam,
Thanks for the info. I think the car can be had for $5-7,000 if the owner ultimately decides to part with it. I had been previously informed to stay away from the V12 for the reasons similar to what you mentioned. I know the smart thing for me to do, is to be satisfied with my Austin Healey and not go looking for trouble. (My reputation suggests I don't always do the smart thing) If I end up with this car, perhaps we can get together since we are not that far apart. Besides, I will need to understand the physics of getting more cars in a garage than the garage has doors.
Thanks for the info. I think the car can be had for $5-7,000 if the owner ultimately decides to part with it. I had been previously informed to stay away from the V12 for the reasons similar to what you mentioned. I know the smart thing for me to do, is to be satisfied with my Austin Healey and not go looking for trouble. (My reputation suggests I don't always do the smart thing) If I end up with this car, perhaps we can get together since we are not that far apart. Besides, I will need to understand the physics of getting more cars in a garage than the garage has doors.
Shorn,
Yes, I just realized you're in Seattle. Whereabouts are ya?
I grew-up in a little, sleepy slightly-upper-middle-class suburb called Medina. Isn't that way anymore!
While my schedule is pretty nasty over the next couple weeks (my kids don't have pre-school over the vacation,) maybe one of these days I can come up and we can go look at it.
I think a lot of people who actually own Jaguar V12s will tell you that when taken care of, they are fantastic. My cousin has owned a white XJ12 convertible (license plate: PRRRRR) for as long as I can remember -- can't remember what year, but she's owned it since new. (If you travel around UW/Sand Point enough, you'll see her driving.) It has been extremely reliable.
It's just a risk thing...and certainly body damage doesn't bode well -- also the question: why was it parked and not used?
Yes, I just realized you're in Seattle. Whereabouts are ya?
I grew-up in a little, sleepy slightly-upper-middle-class suburb called Medina. Isn't that way anymore!
While my schedule is pretty nasty over the next couple weeks (my kids don't have pre-school over the vacation,) maybe one of these days I can come up and we can go look at it.
I think a lot of people who actually own Jaguar V12s will tell you that when taken care of, they are fantastic. My cousin has owned a white XJ12 convertible (license plate: PRRRRR) for as long as I can remember -- can't remember what year, but she's owned it since new. (If you travel around UW/Sand Point enough, you'll see her driving.) It has been extremely reliable.
It's just a risk thing...and certainly body damage doesn't bode well -- also the question: why was it parked and not used?
I live in Lake Forest Park, but grew up in the Wedgwood, Sand Point area of Seattle, still play golf at Sand Point CC. I am not sure why the XKE hasn't been driven for so many years, but suspect it just had some mechanical issues and the owner just parked it. A close friend of mine is sort of acting as an intermediary between myself and the owner. I haven't really looked closely at the car yet, but hope to over the holidays. The owner was thinking about putting a Chevy engine in it and repainting, but I don't think he wants to spend the money to do that. As I learn more I will let you know. That little upper middle class area of Medina is now home for alot of Microsoft millionaires. Typical waterfront homes are about $5 to $10 million plus, and of course Bill, himself is just a little bit south with his mansion.
Bruce Bowker
Obi Wan
Offline
If you can get the car for $5000 I would consider it. Of course it ultimately depends on condition which you should visit the car to find out exactly. It is possible the engine is in great shape. Some other work you can do yourself I assume.
I have a 72 roadster and the car is great fun to drive.
Bruce
I have a 72 roadster and the car is great fun to drive.
Bruce
90 XJ-S
Jedi Trainee
Offline
A frame off could easily cost that much. I would be careful though, since a Series three won't be all that valuable even fully restored. It would be the proverbial "Labor of Love" to put 40K (or more) into it.
That having been said... go for it!! The odds are real good that there is nothing major wrong with the engine and if the Cockpit is in decent shape and if the damage is repairable. (I realize that's a lot of ifs) then I doubt it will be <u>THAT</u> expensive to restore it.
Mike
That having been said... go for it!! The odds are real good that there is nothing major wrong with the engine and if the Cockpit is in decent shape and if the damage is repairable. (I realize that's a lot of ifs) then I doubt it will be <u>THAT</u> expensive to restore it.
Mike
John S Farrington
Jedi Warrior
Offline
The Jag V12 is an awesomely powerful and smooth engine with great longevity if taken care of. It does not like to be overhated however. If this has occured, it probably needs an overhaul or at least a valve job with any head warping being eliminated. The price of entry for a V12 overhaul starts at about $10k. This does not include engine R&R which, for an E Type, can be at least another $1k. If the E type body is chronically rusty, DO NOT BUY!! If it is relatively rust free but in total need of paint, chrome and upholstry, the cosmetic work could be accomplished with a $20k budget. Add to the above brakes and suspension which is a wild card depending on what you find. The advice that you received on value of a series III roadster is realistic and they are appreciating every year. Good luck