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TR4/4A '62 TR-4 questions

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viperfreq

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My girlfriend's father recently gave her a 1962 TR-4 he bought new...in 1962. It is in great condition, but I want to help make sure it stays that way. So here are a few questions:

1) Does it matter what fuel I put in her (87, 89 or 92 octane)?

2) Do I need to add anything to the fuel since it used to run leaded?

3) Should the amp meter move when the engine is reved? Right now it looks like it stays at zero most of the time...my guess is that the generator is not working.

4) The oil pressure stays high...idles at 60-70, and runs at 80ish. Never seems to get higher than that, but I can't tell if that is an issue.

Thanks for any info.

Matt
 
viperfreq said:
1) Does it matter what fuel I put in her (87, 89 or 92 octane)?

2) Do I need to add anything to the fuel since it used to run leaded?

3) Should the amp meter move when the engine is reved? Right now it looks like it stays at zero most of the time...my guess is that the generator is not working.

4) The oil pressure stays high...idles at 60-70, and runs at 80ish. Never seems to get higher than that, but I can't tell if that is an issue.
Click to expand...

Use the higher octanes. I use 91. Some people do recommend an additive at times, but I can't recall the product. Begins with a "z" I believe. Yes, the amp meter will move as the engine is rev'd, and in the middle at zero is fine as I recall (long day here). My oil pressure is much like yours. Others have said to adjust the oil pressure relief valve on the filter housing, but that didn't change much for me. As long as it comes down a bit after warm up, and doesn't go above 80 on acceleration,you're fine.
 
Welcome to the forum!

Similar answers to KVH, but a little different:

Yes, I use higher octane too, but really you could just check on going with a lower octane and see if you get anything like pinging on acceleration - if it doesn't ping I don't see the big need to spend the additional money.

It would be good to try to maintain a lead substitute but I'm not sure its a cure all. Some people never have problems, in my case on my just completed engine rebuild when I pulled the head I could see the exhaust valves were badly recessed. Just do good maintenance and check valve lash - if it gets tighter over time you may be seeing valve recession. If so, at some point pull the head and have a machine shop install hardened seats. If you just got in and out for the seats I bet you could keep costs down to $200 or so. Full head rebuild might get closer to $500 and up.

The ammeter should definitely move, when you turn the key 'on', do you see any deflection before you start the engine? Normally I see a slight discharge movement on the needle. If it discharges, then you start up and see no charge yes you need to check the generator and maybe the control box.

It sounds like you have a good, fresh engine still with the pressure. I don't think I'd change a thing.
 
+1 on trying lower octane.

From what I've read, most "lead substitutes" are little more than placebos; and the protection from having been run on lead seems to last a long time. So I agree with Randy, save the money you would have spent on lead substitute, and spend it on exhaust seats when/if it becomes necessary.

You might check to see if it still has the original generator. Lots of people like to upgrade to alternators, and many bypass the ammeter when doing so. While you're there, check the two wires to the generator. They lead a hard life right next to the exhaust manifold, so it's not unusual for them to crack and break. There are some detailed troubleshooting instructions at https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B2H2NJt34OffNTc3ODkwYzAtYjRlYS00NDNmLWI0YTYtNjY5ZjQxZTA2NGFm

Oh, and by the way, welcome to the asylum!
 
I believe the only reason your amp needle will move is if the generator is trying to charge the battery, if you turn on the lights with out the engine runing you should show a move toward discharge, if the battery is low and you run the car the generator will put out to charge the battery up and the needle should move to the plus side, once the battery is charged up the generator would put out enough charge to run the electrics in the car and not off the battery and your needle should stay close to 0

I think that right, but you can do a search on generator functions on the net and read up on it

Hondo
 
All,
Thank you very much for the quick replies and help. Nice to get the answers that seem to suggest the least expensive routes.

Cheers,
Matt
 
hondo402000 said:
I believe the only reason your amp needle will move is if the generator is trying to charge the battery, if you turn on the lights with out the engine runing you should show a move toward discharge, if the battery is low and you run the car the generator will put out to charge the battery up and the needle should move to the plus side, once the battery is charged up the generator would put out enough charge to run the electrics in the car and not off the battery and your needle should stay close to 0
Click to expand...

That is correct; but starting the engine will always drain enough from the battery that the generator should try to charge it as soon as the rpm comes up high enough for the generator to work. With the generator putting out it's maximum of 21 amps (19 for earlier TRs), it takes many minutes of high speed driving to recharge the battery from even an easy start; it won't happen just revving the engine in the driveway.

Most mornings, my TR3 starts on the second turn. If the battery was fully charged when I parked the day before (meaning I didn't drive home with the headlights on), the battery will be recharged and the ammeter drop to near 0 within 5-10 minutes of freeway driving. But the first time I pull up to a red light, the battery discharges while the engine is idling, and then recharges again as soon as I take off. It's a constant cycle, when driving in city traffic.

With headlights on, the cycle is much more pronounced. Takes about 10 amps to run all the lights, so the battery runs down quicker with the engine idling (at 800 engine rpm, the generator is doing basically nothing, you may even see the red light glowing to indicate that the cutout opened). And the original generator doesn't have much capacity left over for charging the battery after it powers the lights and ignition. That means it takes much longer to put back the charge.

Which, in a largish nutshell, is why many people opt to upgrade to an alternator. Even a "mini" alternator will generally have twice the capacity of the stock generator, plus they will usually put out a fair amount of current even at idle. I had a 60 amp alternator in the (now wrecked) 3A; and while the ammeter would still kick up after every start, it would drop back down within a minute or two.
 
I have found that I can run regular if I use Shell (get a big price break with our local grocery card) rather than the discount stations. Perhaps this is my imagination but going by the pinging it seems to be true in my TR4. Of course, where you set the timing will affect what octane you'll need.

I drove several years with unleaded but finally (after a long fast day of driving home from California) experienced valve recession -- discovered it when I could not adjust a valve to spec. At that point I pulled the head and got hardened seats but IMO no harm in waiting and seeing if this becomes necessary. Many drive for years w/o this problem and the fix is the same whether you do it in advance or when it is required.

On mine (as noted) the ammeter will swing a bit with the headlamps on and also twitch as the turn signals flash. These are some things to look for. There is an excellent Lucas manual for testing the generator -- perhaps available online?
 
I run regular in my 66. I go along with what the other guys say about the ammeter too. It will stay close to zero after the battery is full, since it is already charged and cannot take any more amps. When the headlights are on they will cause a drain and you will see the ammeter show a little more charge and it might twitch like Geo said. And the initial drain on starting like Randall said.

I like your oil pressure. You may want to consider using a zinc additive when you change the oil though. Modern oils no longer have the zinc, unless you use off-road or racing oils.

Dan B.
So. Chas, WV
66 TR4AIRS EFI
80 TR7
 
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