3000 Frame [ Door Gaps & Frame/Body Sag ]

[big6]

I have finished the frame rework and body alignment for my BJ7. I replaced the rusted frame pieces, outriggers, and etc. The frame contacts the eight check-points indicated in the maintenance manual and is square. The door gaps are between 1/8 to 3/16 inch and all looks great. Talking to a couple of big Healey restoration shops they indicate that I need to allow for frame flex after the engine and transmission are installed. Supposedly the door gap closes after the suspension is assembled and on wheels and the engine/trans is fit. Is this true or does this just occur with a frame that is partially rusted and thin allowing the sag. If this is true then, how much door gap is allowed for the flex?

Terry

 

[John Loftus]

Terry,

In my less-than-expert opinion you shouldn't have any frame flex with the addition of the engine/transmission if the frame is "factory thick". One way to quickly test how flexible your frame is would be to put 700-800 lbs (sandbags, concrete bags, etc) in the engine and trans area. and measure the door gaps. Ideally you would do this with the suspension installed, wheels on the ground so the complete structure of the frame is tested.
Cheers,
John

 

[big6]

John,

I can install the suspension and drop in the engine/trans but if it flexes then I have a mess cutting welds and bending the frame. Got to be an easier way. Does anyone know if the factory jigs and fixtures took flex in account when manufacturing the frame/body?

Terry

 

[Keoke]

Terry, to the best of my knowlege the body panels were not fitted until they had a rolling chassis. They were then marked with an ID No to facillitate finale assembly. My personal experience is the same,final fit and arragement of the body panels is done after you have a rolling/running chassis.-FWIW---Keoke /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

 

[bob hughes]

Chaps
My friendly Healey man always loads up the engine bay with sand bags before placing the panels and setting the door gaps. I am not sure what you can do about it now, I do not think that you can pre determine the movement, you have to create it first.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/england.gif
Bob

 

[big6]

When the engine/trans is removed from a 3000, how much change in the door gap is noticed? I purchased my BJ7 in boxes therefore I don't know how much the gap changed. Also, I have not seen a 3000 with the engine/trans removed to inspect the door gap.

Terry

 

[Randy Forbes]

Terry,

Your best bet now is to drop in the eng/trans and see where the gaps are. If the final painting hasn't been done yet, it won't be too hard to lightly trim the door edges to fine tune the gaps again (I doubt you'l have any issues with the hood/trunk gaps changing).

Doing the ground up on my own car, I got to the panel fitment stage and realized that I suck at bodywork! As a result, I wound up letting Paul Tsikuris bail me out and get the car painted.

I wish I had seen your post sooner, my wife (& about 1000 close friends...) were in Greenville ALL last week. We go down annually for the Z3 (and now Z4) Roadster Homecoming at the BMW Plant in Spartanburg.

Good luck, whichever way you proceed. Keep us posted!

 

[Dave Russell]

Terry,

If you have truly & realistically repaired/replaced all damaged metal, used good welds, & have things properly aligned, there will be no sag when the other parts are installed. As Keoke said, the final panel fits were done with all of the heavy parts installed, but to my knowledge, the panel gaps don't change when the heavy parts are removed.

As John said, there should be no difference in sag, loaded or unloaded. What you are asking is to evaluate the quality & completeness of your repairs & make allowances for unknown defects, if there are any, ahead of time.

In my limited experience there will be no difference in panel fit with the drive train in or out on a solid car. A fair estimate would be to jack up the car one corner at a time & check for panel fit changes. Any change at all is a warning that underbody repairs are not adequate.

Some "pro" shops do a less than complete & adequate restoration & from experience, make some allowances for panel gap changes, they are sometimes able to estimate the degree of flex because they know what they left out in the under restoration. Other times they miscalculate. Nothing looks worse than a car which has had allowances for sag made by widening the top door gaps & then the sag does not happen. Door gaps can be equalized after the fact by trimming the door edges a bit if the gap is too tight & even adding metal to the door edges if the gaps are are too wide. A tremendous amount of extra work that most shops will not go through.

Your best bet is to build the rolling chassis & then final panel fit as Keoke said. Healeys are not one of the easy or cheap cars to properly restore.
D

 

[big6]

Randy,

I drove by the BMW plant and saw the cars at the homecoming. Another show that might be of interest to you is the EURO Auto Fest at the BMW plant. This year the show is October 15 - 17 with MG the featured marque. About 10 years ago I completed a frame up restoration on my TR6. I have received 6 first place, 2 second place, and last year the Crowd Pleaser award for the Triumph marque. I relocated to SC from Ohio (Cincinnati) about 9 years ago and only return to Ohio to see my little girl and the grand kids. You should bring your Healey down for the show at BMW this year. More information about the show can be found at www.euroautofestival.com.

Dave, I am sure of the quality of the welds and metal replacments. One of my many careers I was a metal working / power mechanics instructor. I also went with heavier gage metal for several items manufactured by a shop in Ohio. I plan restoring the suspension and setting the engine/trans in the next 3 - 4 weeks. I've got to get the TR6 ready for this year's BMW auto fest.

Terry