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1500, really that bad?

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CLynn85

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Alright, I know the 1275 is like the holy grail, but is the 1500 really that bad? I keep hearing comments referring to it as a POS, boat anchor, etc, but so many of them are out there, and being the last version, still easy to find in good shape.

I guess what I'm really asking is, if I came across a later midget with the 1500 would I forever hate myself for not getting a mk III 1275 or would I be happy once I deleted the rubber bumpers?
 
I think you would be very happy. The engine is a little more fragile than a 1275 and doesn't have as many go fast parts - though if you google triumph Spitfire 1500 (same engine) there is stuff out there.

It's not as fast largely because of the pollution/ Low compression stuff BUT for ice cream and driving through the curvy roads, I fail to see a difference.
 
Of course if you can find one with the Nissan version of the 1500 already installed then it's all gravy... And if it includes the 5 speed all the better! :wink:
 
The 1500 has an 8-port head. The 1275 can't boast that except with very expensive conversions. Conversion to port FI is just that much easier. If one were so inclined, the 1275 is mostly religated to TBFI (except a few diehards who really insist on making it work with MPFI)

As for strength of the bottom end - it ain't. But with a bit of maintenance they are ok. Pleanty good for the daily driver. (I have myself had a block crack in half and still run, with only a little tapping noise and oil leak.)
 
The 1500s got a bad rep because of some inherent problems in the basic design, which the Triumph engines have as well. Don't expect to see high oil pressure readings on these engines. Add that to the fact that they were installed in chassis that were several hundred pounds heavier than their predecessors and burdended with all the emissions controls and you get the idea. They have excellent potential to make great cars, with only a bit of compression and some carburation enhancements needed. The overdrive transmission from a Spitfire can be installed in the Midget chassis with very little work and makes for a great highway car. Take a look at the photos from Spridget 50 posted on the Sprite Midget club website, many nice 1500s there.
 
My 1500 has been converted to 9:1 compression (easily and affordably done) and has a custom TBI fuel injection system riding on the original manifold using the original carb as a throttle body , the ecu also controls spark advance (not so easy and affordable). Everything else is stock. And lemme tell you, my car gits! Passing SUVs at highway speeds is nothing. I can chirp the wheels at will (if I were into that kind of thing), and I still get pretty good MPG. Switching to a "Euro" twin SU set up would be much cheaper than the mod I made, and would probably yield even more power. But this may not be a viable option if your state regulates pollution control systems for old cars.

On the downside, oil pressure is scary low at idle and there is the every present fear that the motor could drop a thrust washer at any moment.
 
I've owned both.
For cruising out to get ice cream there's no difference.
And for making max power the 1500 is better (due to the head design), but it's also far more fragile.
A 1500 Midget lowered and converted to chrome bumpers is actually a great little car for the money.
I've been racing my 1500 wheel-to-wheel for six years (and auto-x a lot longer). I do rod bearings and thrust washers about every 25 hours and keep max RPM under 5800. The bearings always come out worn and I should probably do them at 15 hours. I've had one crank regrind and killed one crank.
The 1500 is not technically legal for vintage, so I am putting in a 1275 soon. But if the 1500 was legal I might just continue to use it.
My oil pressure (using 20W-50 Castrol) is 60 psi running and about 25 psi at idle. This is true even after running a 4 Hour enduro. The bottom end is nothing special (just all stock parts) and the oil pump is the orignal '78 unit. I put about 4 hours of track time on it this weekend (at Watkins Glen). Burned no oil and oil pressure was fine (but I did have an intake manifold leak that kept power down).
 
The 1500 gets most of its bad rep from them thrust washers. Many of engines have been blown up or thought to be blown up just based on thrust washers. The Zenith Stromberg doesnt help its reputation either. I keep a close eye on my thrust washer play (end float) and run a single rebuilt SU from a 71 MGB and it runs great.
 
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I have a 1500 with the emissions stripped, the bumpers off, and running a Weber carb. (If I had it all to do again, I would have used the single-SU setup instead.) It's plenty zippy for around town, and seems to have a fair amount of low-rpm grunt compared to the smaller Austin engines. I like it, but the thrust washer horror stories loom large.

You'll probably get more car for your money initially with a 1500, with fewer years of rust, abuse, and decay.

Hey, this is probably the ideal thread to ask this, for my benefit as well as CLynn's: What's a quick and dirty (and cheap) way to check end float? How can you tell a thrust washer's about to go? Are there any tricks to changing a thrust washer, say, in your driveway, in a couple of hours? Do they REALLY just "fall out?"
 
You can definitely change your thrust washer with engine in car. Pull the oil pan, pull the rear main cap, push the old 2 thrust washer halves out, push two new ones in. Done.

As far as Tony's subtle use of emoticons lemme say: if what you want is a Midget, hold out for an A-series car. You will probably get much better smilage (smiles per mile.) If what you want is specifically a 1500 Midget, you will be happy with it, and with a bit of preventative maintance, it will not let you down.
 
As above...

I have a 1500. With a few little tweaks, it makes good power. I have shaved my head (9:1) and put on a Weber, and the car is now significantly faster (and torquier) than a stock 1275.

That said, if I had a mulligan, would I buy a 1500 again? No... because I wouldn't buy a rubber-bumper car again. If you want a chrome-bumper car (and it seems you do) then HOLD OUT FOR A GOOD ONE! For the $$ you'd spend on converting a RB car, it's not worth it. Done properly you would need rear bodywork, early front fenders, both bumpers and some paint. Oh, and some lowering springs... Easily a grand, if you want nice used parts. New, I think fenders are about $900. Each. :shocked:

So yeah. If you don't like the rubber bumpers, don't buy a rubber-bumper car. Hold out for what you want. There are enough cars out there.
 
:iagree: although the reality is other than Bugeyes (some of the time) most spridgets seem to follow their owners home. Sure folk like Tony look for a specific model for a specific reason but most of the rest of us seem to have stumbled upon a car at a good price with good memories. From that point of view, if a nice one follows you home, 1500 or not, go for it and enjoy it. Smiles per mile you can't fault either.

:driving: :banana:
 
Mr. Smit - I like your point of view and I like the 79 Midget that followed me home. It is a blast for putting around the hills and curves on a Sunday afternoon. Some day I may take it to a closed course and get embarassed by under power, over weight and high center of gravity, but until that happens I'll be perfectly happy with what I've got. In addition, since the RB is not as popular, I got a lot better car for the money than I could have gotten if I was hungup on getting an earlier model. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
 
Mr. Smit. Wow, such formality among friends.
 
I drove our 1500 to Osage Beach and back.Still has the ZS and the carbon cannisters,and neither cause problems.
Maintenance is the secret in all mechanical applications.

I like JP's attitude too. But,haven't the nerve to call him
"Mr". :jester: :devilgrin:

Stuart. :cheers:
 
My Midget has the 1275 in it so I can't say too much about that. But I had a 1500 Spitfire for 8 years and drove it a lot. Of all the things that went bad on the car, the engine was never a problem.
 
jlaird said:
Mr. Smit. Wow, such formality among friends.
Click to expand...

Astonishing to me too. Ain't nobody calls me Mr. :nonod:

Besides it's Reverend :angel:
grin.gif
 
The 1500 is not a bad motor, it's thrust washer problem is more owner inflicted than anyhting else, and can be corrected by not sitting at stop signs and red lights with the clutch depressed, as the MG engine don't need this treatment either as thier carbon T/O bearing wear quickly doing this.

The 1500, I bult quite a few of them, are harder to find performance parts for, campared to the 1275 for example, but then so are alomost any other LBC engine when compared to the 1275.

I think the 1500 RB Midgets are going through a breath of fresh air in the hobby. many people in this hobby for a long time, have always gravitated to the Bugeye or A-seried CB Spridgets, for us long timers it the coveted choice, howevermany new folks are coming inot the hobby, that could care less about CB vs RB, 1275 vs 1500 Triumph motor, they have just found themselves a cool liitel car and want to have fun with it. So I think the 1500 Midget is going through a new evolution in it's life, and it will increase as new, and younger folks get into the hobby. It will real easy for us long term Spridget hobbist to simply tell this folks, go get a CB A-series engine, but it alot deeper than that, the CB Midget deserves it time in the limelight as well as the rarest of Bugeyes, and thes folks whn scorned about thier choice in LBC will simply turn away when we give them purist advice, not that none of you in this post have done this, but it happens alot in the Spridget community. Time to give the RB 1500 the same attention and devotion as we have given to the A-series engine cars. The 1500 Midgets can be great cars, and will in the future and even now are being restored, hot rodded, and will be contiuned to do so. All in all, that's a great thing, just more folks enjoying the LBC expereince.
 
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