TR2/3/3A TR3A Seat Belt Question

[rlandrum]

I'm attempting to determine the correct (or best) location for the seat belts in the TR3A.

We have a number of holes in the floor, some of which we can't identify.

I believe the ones marked SB are the seat belt holes. They seem most inline with the seat rails. The ? in the middle is pointing to frame body mounting holes, I'm fairly certain. But those rear ? don't appear to be over anything on the frame, so I'm not sure of their purpose.

Can anyone help?

 

[martx-5]

None of those places were used to anchor the seat belts.

Read through this thread, where I asked the same question.

 

[Moseso]

The ones you've marked "SB" are not factory holes and were probably used as seat belt holes. They'll work fine. The four "?" holes at the very rear of the tub ARE factory holes which get plugged with those clear plastic body hole plugs. Other than that, no use is known for them.

 

[DNK]

Did the 3 come with seat belts. If not then it don't matter.

 

[rlandrum]

No. The TR3A did not originally come with seat belts. However, they are required now.

Since holes already exist, I wanted to avoid drilling new holes if possible. Reusing the existing holes was my intention, but wanted to get verification that the holes I had choosen weren't being used for something else.

 

[TR3driver]

No. The TR3A did not originally come with seat belts. However, they are required now.

You might want to double-check that. Here in CA, it is not required to retrofit seat belts to cars that did not originally have them. But you have to read the actual statute to learn that.

In fact, I don't see how the state could reasonably require you to retrofit seat belts without manufacturer support; since an improperly installed seat belt can easily be worse than no seat belt at all. But of course reason and the law frequently make strange bedfellows.

 

[swift6]

The mandatory seat beltslaws do have exceptions. Year of manufacture is often the largest exception. It does vary by state so look for the laws that apply to your state. In Colorado, I reference the "CRS" (Colorado Revised Statutes) which I can do online. These are the statutes that Police Officers have to learn and be aware of to enforce current law. So they are the most current rules. I'm sure Virginia has something similar.

 

[martx-5]

I just looked up the law in NY State. Any vehicles 1964 and older do not require seat belts. The first TR I bought was a '63 TR4 that I got in '65. The first modification I made was to install seat belts.

 

[Andrew Mace]

Correct, Art. However, New York DID require seat belt mountings for the front seat occupant(s) beginning in 1962, specifically "...no motor vehicle manufactured or assembled after June thirtieth, nineteen hundred sixty-two shall be sold or registered in this state unless such motor vehicle is equipped with safety belt assembly anchorages conforming to standards established by the
commissioner for two safety belts for the front seat of such vehicle." So pretty much every 1963 model year car first sold in New York State should have (had) front seat belt mounts installed. I believe CT had a similar law, hence the service bulletin from Standard-Triumph referenced in the previous thread as noted above in Art's first post.

 

[rlandrum]

Virginia law notwithstanding, we want seat belts, and therefore, they are required. Also, as I recall, the Restoring the TR3 book says that seatbelts are required. I suspect that may be in Britain.

 

[martx-5]

Virginia law notwithstanding, we want seat belts, ...

A good idea fer sure. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I've been using them since '65, long before it became common place and mandatory. I just figured that all those race car drivers must know something. Belts have saved my butt on at least two occasions...both in TR's. I'm still taken aback by the number of people that STILL don't use them.

 

[startech47]

Here is the Va code. Even though you don't need to install them by Va law, BCF law insists on you having them. We want you around for a very long time.

§ 46.2-1092. Safety lap belts or a combination of lap belts and shoulder harnesses to be installed in certain motor vehicles.

No passenger car registered in the Commonwealth and manufactured for the year 1963 or for subsequent years shall be operated on the highways in the Commonwealth unless the front seats thereof are equipped with adult safety lap belts or a combination of lap belts and shoulder harnesses of types approved by the Superintendent.

§ 46.2-1093. Requirements for safety lap belts, shoulder harnesses and combinations thereof.

Any safety lap belt or shoulder harness or any combination of lap belt and shoulder harness installed in a vehicle shall be designed and installed in such manner as to prevent or materially reduce movement of any person using the same in the event of collision or upset of the vehicle.

The Superintendent shall establish specifications or requirements for approved type safety lap belts and shoulder harnesses or any combination of lap belt and shoulder harness, attachments, and installation, in accordance with the provisions of this section. Such specifications or requirements may be the same as those specifications or requirements for safety lap belts or shoulder harnesses or any combination of lap belt and shoulder harness established by the Civil Aeronautics Administration Technical Standard Orders or regulations established by the Society of Automotive Engineers or the standards of the federal Department of Transportation, for safety lap belts and shoulder harnesses or combination of lap belts and shoulder harnesses.

No person shall sell or offer for sale any safety lap belt, shoulder harness, or any combination of lap belt and shoulder harness or attachments thereto for use in a vehicle, unless of a type which has been approved by the Superintendent.

(Code 1950, § 46-312.1; 1956, c. 36; 1958, c. 541, § 46.1-310; 1966, c. 37; 1968, c. 171; 1970, c. 20; 1989, c. 727.)

 

[TR3driver]

Well, I for one would NOT be here if I'd been wearing my seat belt, neither would my Dad ... don't care to reopen that old debate, just observing that they don't _always_ "save lives".

And no, my TR3A did not have belts, and I walked away from a 4-car chain collision with no injuries whatsoever. My project TR3 won't have them either.

Those race cars you see with belts also have VERY substantial roll cages, mounted directly to the frame. It's a package deal, and I also don't want the roll cage for the street. "Show bars" don't count.

 

[swift6]

we want seat belts, and therefore, they are required.

Which should make this the end of the sidebar. Lets get back to getting the seat belts installed properly then as improperly installed could be worse than not having them. Did you already purchase belts? Did they come with preferred instructions that satisfied their legal department?

 

[rlandrum]

I don't know if the belts we have came with instructions.

My father managed to find a TR3A "Recommended Seat Belt Location" document somewhere, but it was difficult to dicipher exactly where the holes should go.

After reviewing that, and reviewing the existing state of the floor, we decided that the best option was to reuse the existing holes.

My plan was to create small hockey pucks to use as washers on either side of the metal to avoid shearing in the event of an accident, since it's mounted into pretty thin sheet metal. That, plus some grade 8 hardware should be sufficient for securing the belts.

 

[PeterK]

I used the SCCA spec for backing plates when I put mine in. 1/8" steel plates 3"x3". I don't think they specified welded in place, mine are not.

I have a document somewhere and have posted it before which shows the recommended locations, maybe it was a service bulletin from ST. But I can't find on my HDD.

HEY I found it! I uploaded it here:
https://mysite.verizon.net/kentech0822/triumph/tr3_seat_belt_mounting_points.pdf

But it mentions mounting through the "heel board" ???

 

[Andrew Mace]

HEY I found it! I uploaded it here:
https://mysite.verizon.net/kentech0822/triumph/tr3_seat_belt_mounting_points.pdf

But it mentions mounting through the "heel board" ???

Looks like you got that originally from me. :wink: It's the same one I noted had been pointed to in the previous seat belt thread; see my earlier post above.

And yes, the "heel board" is that vertical panel behind the front seats between the main floor and the "rear seat" area...a "board" that doesn't quite exist in the same way on the pre-60000 bodies. Personally, I think I like Don's use of the propeller shaft tunnel, and I think that's what I used back in 1972 or so, when I put belts in my TR3A.

Wherever they go, just make darned sure that the metal you drill into, and the metal ALL AROUND that area, is absolutely solid: no rust, and no tears. And do note that Andover and just about any other company that sells seat belts for fitting to older cars will also have a variety of hardened washers, reinforcement plates and proper bolts or eyelet bolts. Without that proper hardware, you might as well put a rope around your belly and the back of the seat for all the good it'll do ya!

 

[PeterK]

Thanks Andy,

I couldn't see how the sloped heel board on my 3A would work. The tunnel is the standard attachment point on my 4A. But my 3A bolts are in the floor, the outer one is nearly over the front spring purchase.

Here's a good source for seat belt stuff incl hardware for those who need stuff https://gotbelts.com/inki.html

 

[DNK]

Hey, colored webbing. Might have to redo the Wedges seatbelts to match the interior or exterior. :laugh:

 

[newmexTR3]

I use 4 point Corbeaus in mine, just switched from some more bulky RJS ones i had for years.

Corbeau offers a lap belt too: https://www.corbeau.com/products/harness_belts/

If you're interested, let me know, I'm an authorized Corbeau dealer for seats & belts, which means good deals for LBC people.

Cheers,
Gavin