TR2/3/3A New member intro - and TR3 hardtop question ..

[TRrat]

Hi All,

I've been lurking for a while on the forum absorbing all the great tips and knowledge but I finally came to a issue that I sure could use some help on, so here I am for the 1st time.
A quick intro, I'm 45 and been involved with Triumphs all my life, starting with my Dad's '59 TR3A TS33208 LO, bought new before I was born - which is mine now, all 62,000 miles of her (I'll see about posting a pic to show everyone..). In between, I had a '73 TR6 (CF 6481 U - sold in 1990 here in Seattle area ...I wonder if she is still around? I keep my eyes open), and Dad had a '73 GT6 Mk III, and a 64 TR4, and my sis had a '78 Spitfire 1500... all in all a lot of years of fun .
Anyway, here's my issue. It's geared at the folks who have a sidescreen hardtop who can provide a picture (or have the parts that they would sell !!)
I've managed to get my hands on a steel hardtop for the 3A and am in the early stages of a restoration. I'm collecting all I need, and have done pretty good - A 'hardtop fitting kit' just got delivered with (almost) all the fittings I need to bolt it on. Searching Ebay had bagged me some of the hardware, but then I found this kit and scored.
One thing it doesn't have, however, are small steel 'L' brackets that actually 'grip' the rear edge of the HT (they slot into the channel on the inner rear lower edge of the HT) and the fitting bolts run through them to pull down the HT as the bolts are tightened. The best diagram
I've seen of these - not really that good - are in the fitting instruction diagrams in the factory service
manual (in the TR3 supplement at the rear of the book) I'm fairly certain that these are simple sheet stock,
bent over into a 'L' with a bolt hole in one leg, but I'd love to see a pic of a original part, just to see if
how it looks, so I can replicate them.

Advance thanks for the help!
Dave

 

[PeterK]

Dave,

I have a TR3 steel hardtop in my loft. I'll check it tomorrow sometime and take a picture for you.

PK

 

[TR3driver]

Here's a couple shots of the decrepit one hanging from my garage rafters.

 

[TRrat]

Randall ~

That is GREAT ~ MANY thanks ~ you've already shown me something I didn't know, that the bracket is threaded and has a set screw that holds it to the HT. I didn't expect that.

Could it be possible, when you get the chance, to perhaps extract one of the brackets and take some more pics of it standalone? Perhaps even a measurement or 2 ...?

What a great forum.

Dave

PS - I wouldn't mind having a garage rafter with such 'decrepit' stuff hanging from it ....

 

[TRrat]

Peter ~

Whatever you can find would be great too - The more I can see, the better!

Dave

 

[TR3driver]

Honestly, I didn't think those screws would come out after nearly 50 years ... but a little sniff of PB Blaster and they came right out.

 

[Brosky]

Now that is technical service, 101.

Great job, Randall!

 

[TRrat]

Randall ~

THANKS. I have to confess, they are a bit more 'substantial' then I expected.... I'm starting to wonder if I can reproduce them out of something I can work with in my garage. I'm guessing that they are made out of steel similar to ... say, the dzus brackets on the side curtains. Hmmmm... 2 different sizes of bracket. Do the 'small' ones come from the right/left side, and the larger one from the 'rear' of the HT..? Or vice versa? For me, chalk this up as 'major discovery #2 tonight' - 2 different sizes.

 

[TR3driver]

The two larger ones go on the sides; 3 smaller ones along the back.

The steel is about 1/8" thick, which I can work using a substantial vise, MAPP torch and BFH. Clamp one end in the vise, then heat it red hot with the torch. Then pull down on the free end and use the BFH to get roughly the desired curve. If you want a particular curve radius, clamping a rod or pipe next to the strap iron will help form it. Won't look perfect, but I doubt anyone would notice it.

Don't recall if I've done anything that thick with the propane torch, but it might work. Take a long time to get hot, though, the MAPP gas works much quicker (and still cheaper than getting out the OA setup).

After you've got the bend made, make the cuts on both sides, drill & tap the hole, etc. At least when I try to do that first, the bend is never quite in the right place /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

 

[TRrat]

Thats what I want thinking too after seen the pics - perhaps heating involving MAPP gas and some work. This hardtop restoration is becoming more interesting by the minute...

Dave

 

[Russ Austin]

Dave I made my own out of angle iron it was pretty easy.

Good Luck

 

[Tinkerman]

Propane wont get it hot enough, would have to be MAPP or Acetylene. Using angle iron might be the best way to go.

Welcome to the forum, gotta love it eh?

Good luck, Tinkerman

 

[Brosky]

Randall,

What is the width of the brackets and the thickness of the material? It's probably cold rolled steel. I can check at the shop and see if we have any product that we form, which is similar in size next week when I go in for our sales meeting.

If I could find something with the same thickness and a 90 degree bend, it could be cut and the drilled to form a new part(s)

 

[TRrat]

/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thankyousign.gif

Said it before and I'll say it again - what a great forum.

Looking more and more like I'll have to have a go at fabbing these. Unfortunately I don't have access to a shop - just a decently stocked garage (hint hint Brosky....)

Found a new wrinkle in this today (after getting the computer back up and running yesterday and this morning, after a operating system crash..). I did a bit of digging and the 'hardtop fitting kit' I have is, according to the website I bought it from, supposed to include these pieces. I'm doing some inquiry to verify if I have a 'incomplete' kit, or the contents changed, or what. It has everything else - except these angle brackets (and associated set screws).

However, the pic on yet another website I found (I believe it's the same kit, just a different vendor) does NOT show these, and I have everything in the pic (BTW I would post the link to the website showing this but I want to be sure not to violate any forum rules)
I may still have a shot at getting these, without resorting to 'boxcar engineering' /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer.gif

Dave

 

[Brosky]

I apologize. I see that Randall previously stated that it was about 1/8" thick. Is that critical to the fit? It would be great if someone could mic them so that I know what range I can search in. Width would be great in case we have something cut already.

 

[TR3driver]

I can't see anything that would make thickness critical to fit. Just needs to be enough to take the screw threads and be strong enough, IMO. My calipers show it's actually around .190-.195".

These are not at all precision-machined components; the originals look a lot like something I would make, complete with stray hammer marks !

Width is about 1.125" rising to about 1.150" at the bend. Again, I don't see any reason it would be critical.

The hole centerlines would be the only things that need to line up, and they are deliberately sloppy fits to allow for adjustment. The HT has slots for the attachment screws, while the screws into the body have reduced diameter shanks for extra clearance.

 

[Twosheds]

Honestly, I didn't think those screws would come out after nearly 50 years ... but a little sniff of PB Blaster and they came right out.

Randall!

You're supposed to spray PB Blaster on the screws, not huff it!

 

[TRrat]

Once again ~ I just want to thank everyone on this - looks like I have to create these (or obtain them) myself, they are not available that I've been able to find.

I definitely would purchase some if anyone with better metal
fabrication skills (likely just about everyone on the forum ..) would be willing to fab up a set. In the meantime I'll take all the info I've found and see if I can rough up a dwg to capture it and go from there.

Paul ~ on the above note, let me know what you find in your shop /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I'll be popping into this thread for a while.

Thanks ~
Dave

 

[Brosky]

I'll let you know on Tuesday night when I return from CT.

 

[Brooklands]

Dave,
Welcome to the forum, and thanks for getting a great new thread started. I had thought about acquiring a HT, and this information makes the idea more interesting as well. Thanks again.
And great story about having a TR that has been in the family longer than you. I wish my dad had not been into luxo-boat suspensions on 4 door Chevys. Oh well, I found my way here now as well, just without the DNA trail.