TR2/3/3A dash rail TR3A grab handle

[NutmegCT]

While waiting for my starter shims, I decided to install the passenger grab handle. Per the owner's manual it's a standard piece of equipment. Got the handle and correct screws from Moss today. The mounting holes were already showing on the underside of the dash rail.

I placed the handle and turned one screw up into one of the four holes.

The screw stopped about halfway in. Tried the other three holes, and the same thing happened. Like the screw is twice too long. But I need to screw those screws all the way in, so the grab handle is tight and clears the glove box lid opening.

I "feel" some kind of metal structure/base under the black vinyl dash rail cover, where the handle holes are. I'm hesitant to pull off the vinyl to see what's there.

Is the dash rail is made of wood? The four screws look like chrome plated wood screws.

But they sure don't go in the dash rail far enough to hold the handle tight.

Has anyone ever installed a grab handle on a TR3A dash rail? Do the four mounting screws just "go into wood"? or do they go into some (hidden) bracket under the vinyl?

Thanks.
Tom

 

[NickMorgan]

Tom,
I think that pre-60000 cars do have a wooden rail under there. I was advised to remove the grab handle on my car as I was told it was a great way to remove your passenger's teeth if you stop suddenly. I thought the handle was a standard fitting, so it's odd that there aren't screw holes in the wood already.
Nick

 

[martx-5]

Yes, the earlier cars have a wood piece there. The later (post 60000) cars have speed nuts in a steel piece...no wood. The correct screw from Moss for your car is 314-190. The later screw is 323-555. Maybe you got the wrong ones. IIRC the later screws look like wood screws or sheet metal screws. Call Moss and ask them to check both numbers and see what's different.

 

[MGTF1250Dave]

Aloha Tom,

The screws should be about 3/4" from tip to bottom of the head at most. The wooden piece runs underneath the sheet metal of the cowl from one side of the car to the other. It is the "filler" under the dash cap rail. If your screws are less then 3/4" then there may be bits of broken or rusted screws in the wood.

 

[NutmegCT]

Excellent help. Thanks!

The four screws I received from Moss were in a bag labeled 314-190. They're definitely "wood screws" (flat head, single slot, tapered point), but they're a full inch in length. Definitely not 3/4 inch length.

I've called Moss four times and always have to leave a message - with Blaine (?) in Tech Assistance, ext 3237. Haven't got a reply yet. They sure get busy sometimes.

If Moss says the full inch is correct, and as Moss says, the alternative is a machine screw (which I know isn't correct for a wooden dash rail), then I'll just use 3/4 inch wood screws from the many I have in my shop. Of course they're brass.

If I can drum up the intestinal fortitude, I'm thinking of using a razor blade to cut a flap in the vinyl covering, to see just what I'm feeling under there. Maybe a non-standard dash rail?

Tom

 

[martx-5]

Machine screws would (pun intended) not work. I would /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif be reluctant to use brass. The wood is probably ash which is pretty hard stuff. I would hate to see you break any screws off in there.

Maybe the original had shorter screws and holes are just not drilled deep enough. With hardwood, you have to drill the pilot hole deep enough for the whole length of the screw. I measured from the bottom of the speed nuts on my post 60000 body up the the sheet metal of the scuttle and got slightly over an inch. This is without the capping on. Add to that the grab handle, and a one inch screw should work. BTW, the cappings from TS22014 on are the same.

Before you start cutting up your vinyl, run a small drill bit up there and see if any more wood comes out. You'll know when you hit the scuttle and can stop.

Edit: I just dug out the grab handle and screws for my car. I have the later type screws (323-555), and they measure 7/8" overall length from top of head to tip. The diameter is .187". I guess that makes it a #10 screw. They are a sheet metal flat head (oval shaped top) type, but could be used as a wood screw. They also have a phillips head, which is probably incorrect.

 

[NutmegCT]

Success! (sorta).

I had felt something "rough or bumpy" under the vinyl at both mounting points. I wondered why I was getting tiny silver flecks as well as sawdust whenever I'd try the Moss (wood) screws. So I girded my loins and cut a small corner of vinyl loose at the outboard handle mount point to reveal the screw holes.

By golly whiz - under the vinyl at that mounting point is a metal tab, about 2 inches wide; that metal tab has holes in it. To me that means the grab handle takes metal screws, not wood screws. What I thought had been wood dust from the holes was actually the old vinyl padding material.

Yikes! I thought the pre-60000 dash rail didn't use the metal tab!

The metal tab was mightily banged up - actually had *four* holes in it (two were covered by the vinyl, two showed right through the holes in the vinyl); each hole was a bit shredded, like multiple attempts had been made to modify the mount. The inboard mounting point is most likely a metal flap also - same metal flecks come out.

So as a test, I took two sheet metal screws and slowly turned them into the correct holes (to match the grab handle ). Works great - but I need four "flat head" metal screws. The round head screws I'm using don't give the glove box enough clearance to pull open.

Onward through the fog!
Tom

 

[martx-5]

Are you sure you're not talking about the metal capping with the vinyl on it? It is made of aluminium. That's why you saw metal coming out. My parts book doesn't show any other metal for the pre 60000 cars. Once you're through the capping, you're into wood.

See if the Moss screws go in now.

 

[NutmegCT]

Art - I peeled back a 2x2 section of vinyl on the underside of what I'm calling the dash rail. Maybe this area has a different name? It's one of the two areas where the handle mounts are supposed to be screwed.

Under that vinyl is the metal. There's no wood "above" the holes; just another piece of metal about 1/2 inch above, where you can barely see what look like two more holes. Hope I'm answering your question.

The Moss screws (the "early" screws) do go into the holes, but they don't get tight - I'm figuring because they're wood screws with a taper.

Here's a pic.

grab handle mount under vinyl

 

[NutmegCT]

OK - finally got the pic link to show up.

T.

 

[Geo Hahn]

...I was advised to remove the grab handle on my car as I was told it was a great way to remove your passenger's teeth if you stop suddenly...

I agree, that thing looks more like a hazard than a help to me (I reomoved it many years ago). If the passenger's belted during a sudden stop in it seems as though the grab handle leaves that much less room before something bad happens.

 

[Don Elliott]

I've heard it's essential for the passenger to hold onto. It's called a Jeez Bar. When you hit a bump, the passenger hangs on a exclaims "Holy Jeez"!

 

[Twosheds]

I always thought that it was called the "Oh, My God We're Gonna Die" bar.

At least, that's what my old girlfriend used to say when she clung to it with both hands.

 

[Don Elliott]

I have removed all the pegs on the dash capping for the tonneau cover on my 1958 TR3A (TS 27489 LO) and after unscrewing the screws for the grab bar and pulling out the knob that lifts the air vent, I saw that everything under there is all wood. The first hole up into that wood for the grab bar is 4.75" from the centerline of that knob for the vent pull.

If you have steel there, maybe some previous owner made a change, or mayby someone built the front end of your car (or at least that part) out of a post 60,000 TR3A or TR3B.

 

[Geo Hahn]

It's been a long time since I've seen that spot on TS47905 -- but I do not recall wood in that location (wood in the doors though). I don't have my Piggot's handy... are we sure 60000 was the change point?