Another what cooling fan is this question?

[jjs64bj8]

Main question, what kind of fan is this - it is any good for hot weather driving?

Been reading all evening previous threads on cooling issues and fans. Our 64 BJ8 PhII is running now, near the end of a long restoration. And it is running hot, and it is hot in Florida this time of year. On a couple of test drives around the block heats right up to almost 200, going slow creeps to 212, and at idle goes right up to 230, but has not boiled over.

Here is what we have,

Radiator is only 3 row, just removed

Fan is as pictured, is not stock but came with the car? Is this a tropical fan?

Have sleeved thermostat installed.

Have the BCS fan shroud which you can see in the photo

Radiator was just pulled to take to radiator shop tomorrow to price recore.


Here is my course of action.

Appears from prior posts the Texas Kooler is the fan to have, but no one makes them any more. Options are to keep existing fan if all of you say it is just as good as the kooler. If not, I am going to get the BMW 2002 fan which can be had on eBay for $35 with free shipping. I can make the plate the Dennis Welsh sells with his 5 blade BMW fan kit.

Recore the radiator to four rows from 3.

Get a pusher fan with thermostat control.


Thanks

jjs64bj8

 

[steveg]

My temp gauge ran 20+ degrees hotter than the temp of the coolant as measured with two cooking thermometers. You might want to remove the thermostat and measure the temp of the coolant adjacent to the temp gauge sender. If it's different, you can carefully pull the needle off the gauge and replace it in an accurate position.

 

[Bob_Spidell]

That is not a Healey 'tropical fan' (those have 6 blades instead of 4). I can't tell if the blades are SS or plastic--they look to be plastic--but either should be fine and as good as a TC (SS fans are generally noisier, but some types pull more air).

Start with the uprated radiator. I run a TC, the BCS shroud and an 'Excel' core radiator and have survived Death Valley at 115degF.

Oil separator?

 

[Randy Forbes]

Easiest way to test a mechanical (or electric, just more complicated) is to put the bulb in a pan of water on the stove. If you have a meat thermometer, stick the end of that in there too.

When the water boils, the gauge(s) should read 212*F, assuming atmospheric pressure at 14.7 psi.

Looks like you have a generic "flex fan"; the idea was that the blades flatten out at speed for less drag, but "bite" more air at low engine speeds, like stopped in traffic.

 

[Randy Forbes]

Gorgeous color by the way!

 

[Healey 100]

A better fan won't hurt but I would wait on the pusher fans, radiator or thermostat changes until you get a lot more miles on this car. A freshly rebuilt engine has a lot more friction and heat generated. Suggest you rack up at least 1000 miles on the engine before you decide the cooling system isn't working right. Drive it in the evening if necessary to get some revs on the engine. I have found most engines with new bores tend to run hot initially but they improve quite a bit once they get some miles on them. Also check the timing and the accuracy of the instruments too.

Lovely car for sure, good luck getting it sorted.

 

[andrea]

https://picasaweb.google.com/112770...GRADEProject?noredirect=1#5907811915008876082 --see also the following photos
This can be helpful for you during the test drives suggested by Bill it is more precise than the Smiths gauge and have also a signal allarm -when engine are coocked!!!:excitement:
I have used it simply inserting the probe in the radiator when my engine have the fists runs and find it very useful - cost less than a New engine
NOW that engine temperature is verified- I use it to know my oil cooler temperature

 

[jjs64bj8]

Thanks for the replies thus far,

The fan is plastic and is rigid. The temp gauge we believe does read a little high. As soon as we shut the car down and the relieve the pressure we measure the coolant temp in top of radiator. It reads 95 deg C, which is 203F when the gauge is showing just above 212F. But not sure if the coolant temp in the top of the radiator is representative of the coolant by the temp sender. I do have a probe similar to what Andrea suggests.

Off to the radiator shop today. Again my radiator has three rows front to back. Other posts say 4 is needed. By adding another row does can I assume the radiator will get thicker by growing towards the front of the car. There is no room for expansion at the rear of the radiator as it would hit the fan. So what can I expect in getting the radiator re-cored?

By the way, the color is Pacific Green which was a real Healey color but not on BJ8s. Think it was last offered in 1963. We just like the color as it is different and seems period correct. It is stunning in the sunlight. We are happy with the choice.

Any one have experience with the BMW fan?

Thanks
jjs64bj8

 

[TimK]

I got a 14 fins /inch (original is 12 fins / inch) in a new 3 row core. It works fine. It was available from a radiator shop as a standard part -- not custom. I also have a BCS shroud and 6 blade BCS fan and a 160 degree thermostat with blanking sleeve from Moss. The system is more than adequate. Fan is noisy, but effective.

 

[AUSMHLY]

Interesting. Looks like two air hoses on the passenger side? Original one under the wing should go to the heater box. How is the other one attached? New openings on the front and firewall?

What is the silver container next to the break reservoir?

 

[jjs64bj8]

To answer AUSMHLY questions

Yes I added a smaller diameter air duct (~2") that goes to the existing opening in the firewall where the right hand drive brake/clutch master cylinders would go. I just made a funnel that attaches to the engine compartment firewall and used the existing openings. The normal block off plate is left off. No permanent holes were drilled etc. Just trying to get more air into the car. At the front of the hose we just used a funnel to grab the air into the hose behind the grill. Have not verified how it works yet as we are still test driving the car with the transmission cover off and no floor insulation. So right now it is a blast furnace driving. We have not yet installed any form of valve to shut off the air id wanted. Here in FL I suspect having the flow of fresh air would be year round.

The silver container if you look close is my old window washer bottle painted the same color as the air cleaners. The hose attached to it is the breather hose that would normally be attached to the rear carb air cleaner. Inside we stuffed some foam and on top is a cheap little breather filter. We sill see how well this works. Never did like the idea of stuffing the breather hose into the carb. Other than the blue shinny air filter on top it kind of looks like it could belong. Probably the key to making this work will be what is stuffed inside. As I said right now it is full of just regular upholstery foam. Any one got any ideas what might work. A friend suggested the stuff that goes inside racing car fuel cells-a special foam-but it aint cheap.

Thanks for asking.

jjs64bj8

 

[AUSMHLY]

Did running the breather hose to the original place the window washer bottle was, not an option?

 

[jjs64bj8]

Maybe this photo will answer the question more clearly. The original location for the window washer will still be used. You can see the blue frame in the upper left of the photo. I just have not put the new plastic washer bottle in as of yet.
We still have some cleaning up to do once we get the new fan and the radiator reinstalled. The old washer bottle, now a breather bottle, is mounted in its mating frame holder on the carburator heat shield as is shown.

You can also see the vent piece we used to duct the 2" additional fresh air vent. It is actually from an old VW which splits the 2" input into two outputs which line up perfectly with the two large holes that the master cylinders would fill on a right hand drive car.

Thank

jjs64bj8

 

[Healey Nut]

I had the rad for my 67 recored after I restored it and didn't get it done thinking it would be ok .....wrong .... Took it to the rad shop and they cut it open it was 75% blocked with junk n crud . They recored it but used 4 pass instead of three but it didn't increase the thickness of the core so clearance wasn't an issue . I have the original 4 blade metal fan that I added a third element making it a six blade but with the original look . No overheating problems at all now .

 

[dcarlg]

I suggest removing that fan ASAP. It looks similar to one that I tried. It actually caused overheating.
Also suggest 14" Spal pusher fan if you anticipate much stop-and-go driving.
Good luck.

 

[jjs64bj8]

I am going with the BMW 2002 fan that is apparently what the D Welch fan is and is the same as the Texas Kooler. We will make the reinforcing piece you get if you buy the entire Welch kit ourselves.

The radiator shop is only going to install a shorter neck so I can install an overflow expansion tank. I had my radiator re-cored years ago by the same shop but was never installed until now . They told me today the three row core that I have now will be almost as good as a tighter 4 row.

Also I am going to add a Spal pusher fan as suggested by dcarlg. So all of these changes should help the problem.

Question for dcarlg. You said you had the similar fan. What did you replace it with? Do you know why the fan was causing overheating? Was is just not effective?

Thanks to all

jjs64bj8

 

[dcarlg]

jjs64bj8,
I bought the flex fan from a British parts vendor on ebay several years ago.
After I removed the stock fan and placed the flex fan, my overheating problems got worse.
I suspect the flattening of the fan at higher RPMs blocked air flow, but I am not an engineer.
I bought a Texas Cooler fan from Moss. Shroud from BCS. Spal 14" fan online. Spal brackets from Spal.com. They needed some customizing.
Hopes this helps. Good luck.

 

[Lotuswins]

jjs64bj8,

The fan you have in the picture appears to me as a first generation Flexalite fan, originally made for drag racers to cut windage losses at high rpms, not exactly what you need to keep your car cool at low speeds. The BMW fan sold by Dennis Welch (you mean the red, plastic 5 bladed fan?) seems a good choice since the TC isn't available. If you have a SK Air Flow Meter (made in germany) used for syncronizing your carbs, you can use it to evaluate or compare the fan flow rates. I used it to compare my TC to my Dodge Truck, Jag, and other fans. Gives a good feeling that you are improving things.

Another thing to consider, if you haven't already, is your water pump a rebuilt original or a reproduction? I had a reproduction on mine, which had a much shorter impeller and the pump body didn't extend into the block sufficiently causing a restriction to the pumps output. Just a thought if you haven't checked this when you assembled the engine.

On the radiator, you may be able to make the 3 row work, but unfortunately I wasn't able to on mine. Mine was a recore by a local shop, and it had modern louvers, and serpentine fins, but was marginal. If you can get enough air flow through it, it may work for you, so the electric fan is a good thought. The 3 row core was 1 3/4 inches thick, and a 2 1/4 thick core will fit without modifying anything. When at the radiator shop last month the owner had an old core there that looked original, and it was 2 1/4 thick, 4 rows, flat finned, and staggered tubes. He thought the British tended to use the staggered, flat fin approach to radiators rather than the serpentine, in line as with modern cars.

I have since moved on to a 5 row, 2 7/8 thick core with a flexalite nylon #415 fan, and things are looking up. However, it still isn't where I want it to be and the next step is a more modern pump impeller to help flows on the liquid side at idle. So far the air flow is comparable to my truck, and the core has flat fins, 20% more tubes and 40% more surface area so it seems the next logical step is the water flow.

Anyways, keep us up on how your upgrades work for you.

 

[jjs64bj8]

Lotuswins

Yes the red BMW fan is on order as well as a SPAL 13" electric pusher fan.

Your are the first to bring up an issue with the water pump impellor. I have not heard that before as an issue. The water pump on the rebuilt engine is fresh, but I do not know if it is a new one or rebuilt. I will call the vendor to confirm.

My radiator is 2" thick with 3 rows (all in a row, not staggered) front to back, 27 cooling columns down left to right, so assume there are 3x27 = 81 separate water channels. It was re-cored years ago but now just put into service. Today I added an expansion coolant tank.

Hopefully all will be back together by the end of the week. I will post the results.

Thanks

jjs64bj8

 

[AUSMHLY]

I had the core replaced/upgraded. I remember the radiator shop saying it was also dimpled.