another outrigger question

[tri_carb_healey]

with the mechanicals very close to being completely sorted out, it's time to stsrt preparing my gameplan for the body work. my main question is.
can i replace an outrigger with the car in its current state, which is completely assembled. the outrigger in question is the front driver side. i have to remove the exhausr. is it common practice to remove the body panels as well? how would you guys do this without breaking the bank?
i have access to a car lift, do i need just a good weld man or is their a specific profession for like automotive welding? which is cheaper, but not dangerous? im new to this so i apologize in advance if some find theses questions foolish. better a fool online than in person

 

[andrea]

Can be possible but you must consider
FIRST care- with fuel pipe nearest the welding zone must be dismantled
electric harness must be protected from heat
LX WING can be disconnected in the lower side and protected
obvious carpets and floor insulation must be accurately removed
FIRE prevention tools and extinguisher must be ready to use

SECOND smaller steel bars- better if angular type- must be welded temporarily
before welding operation of the outrigger for fix the dimension and distortion prevention -
MINIMUM 4 in the appropriate site immediately near the welding zone

THIRD MIG with wire and gas welding must be used to limit heat
consider also mask for respiration issues due to paint fumes
good ventilation eventually forced can help-
spot light
welding under lift is not one of better position BUT not impossible
I am interested on your welding operation report
if you decided to pursue in the foolish project
Cheers
Andrea

 

[Brinkerhoff]

Once the outrigger is cut off the support for the door hinge post will mostly be gone so the door will want to drop ( I think this is what Andrea is concerned with) changing the door opening geometry. In lieu of temporary bracing the secret I've found is to leave the fender and door in place. I wouldn't do it on a lift , you'll have no way to stabilize the door openings. I would raise the car on jack stands directly under the axles to a position you can do the entire welding at. Don't move the car until you are finished. Before cutting in to it check to see if the doors open and close properly. Raise and support the center of the car directly under the X brace in the frame. Now you can cut the outrigger out and replace it , welding it to the main frame rail then tieing it in to the inner sill. Check and adjust the door fit and be prepared to raise the door hinge post slightly. Its pretty straightforward but a pain to work in the confined areas and make good welds. Once the outrigger is cut from the frame you'll want to sandblast or grind the frame rail clean and prep it with a weld through primer. If you are going to be in a contorted postion when you weld , the weld may as well be a good one. Find a welder that understands and you'll be fine.

 

[tri_carb_healey]

how would i go about stabilizing the door openings? i will not be welding this, my plan would be to find someone who is an experienced welder. my main goal is to know all the tips and secrets from those whove done this before. so i should not remove the fender or door during this procedure?
i will dismatle the fuel lines and protect the harness as stated above. i'd say im about three months from starting this project. i just want to be prepared

 

[Randy Forbes]

PM sent.

 

[Lotuswins]

Hi Tri Carb,

What is wrong with the outrigger and why are you replacing it? Is it totaly eaten with rust? is it damaged from an external impact? or??

The reason I'm asking this is that perhaps you don't need to replace the entire outrigger. If it is rusted on the bottom, perhaps you just need to weld in a new bottom?

If you do need to replace the whole outrigger, end to end, of course you have alot of work to do...the floor boards tie to it IIRC, so removal of carpet, seats, muffler, etc. all need removal for access and to prevent a fire. Then temporary reinforcement to hold things in place while you cut out and replace the outrigger needs to be installed, by a competent welder. I would think if you do the removal of the needed items, then towing/transporting to the welder, he can do the reinforcement and replacement of the outrigger.

Perhaps someone can recommend a shop in your area to do the replacement if you don't feel you can weld?

I hope this helps, I replaced all of mine along with sills and rockers due to intensive rust, but I had the fenders, doors, etc. all off. Reinforcement was installed for me by a specialist which consisted of welding box steel at the tops and bottoms of the door openings both side to side and front to back with triangulation. Then I cut out the sills and outriggers and rewelded in new, being very careful to match the published frame dimensions, checking and triple checking dimensions due to previous shunts on the car.

Good luck and let us know how you fare?

Jerry Rude
BJ8 approaching paint
Lotus Europa TCS 'Guenhwyvar'

 

[Brinkerhoff]

I'm by no means the last word on this. I can tell you what will work, since you asked and I've done it ,but its up to you to decide how to go about it in a way that practically applies to your situation. By all means if you can get by with just replacing the bottom of the outrigger then do so. It may not warrent all the extra work to replace the whole thing.

 

[tri_carb_healey]

the entire outrigger does not need to be replaced just the end essentially at the bottom from what i can tell. i would like to take it to a local shop. i have a brit car show tomm. where maybe someone can recommend a shop.

 

[andrea]

Referring to the SECOND paragraphs
I have mumbled about the position of the four angled steel bars:
its must be welded two by two in vertical X crossing position
-after that the two pieces are welded to the frame and to sill
at the crossing point of each couple must be welded (obvious it must be adherent)
the couples must be positioned
one in front and one at rear of the existent outrigger
max distance from outrigger 10 cm - if less is better but if this don'interfering with welding operations

one third couple can be positioned at the front in horizontal
position to avoid any horizontal shift from the frame and the sill-but this is less important due the floor and rear outrigger presence
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/JBzPqXOQivDoLZGPZ5oRX9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
This is strictly suggested for partial or total outrigger substitution

cross reinforcement of door light can be one more insurance for the success of the operation
but the two cross reinforcement
if well dimensioned and accomplished can avoid vertical movements
at the Hinge panel zone
I hope that my limited English have not a tragically influence
on your foolish project
Cheers
Andrea

 

[Randy Forbes]

LOL! Andrea, you have to stop calling him a fool (you don't want Basil to "ban" you)!

For the record, there is no part of me, and I hope tch, that thinks you are intending any malice; I suspect it's just a function of the language barrier and conversion.

It is however, funny :wink:

 

[TimK]

Andrea is a bright and knowledgeable and experienced Healey restorer. I love his occasional misuse of his non-native language. I've been to Italy and attempted some very basic Italian and quickly gave up. I have the utmost respect for Andrea's persistence in using English to help his English speaking Healey brothers.

 

[andrea]

Hi Randy
All of us in BCFORUM are partly fool, to work on 60 years old cars spending time and money BUT my is just a joke haven't words to describe the passion that aim us !
However read the last phrase in initial Tri carb message:
" some find theses questions foolish. better a fool online than in person"
Tri carb project is hazardous, but can be possible. I admire his courage and with my limit, helps
Cheers
Andrea

 

[elrey]

"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows he is a fool." - William Shakespeare.
We should count ourselves lucky to have wise men as foolish as yourselves among us. -- elrey

 

[tri_carb_healey]

andrea no worries, i appreciate your advice. im trying to get a variety of tips and safe ways to do this. andrea if you have any pictures to better help me understand the door pillar supports and such i'd appreciate it. the car's a driver and i just want to put it in proper shape. thanks guys for the help

 

[Randy Forbes]

If I was any good with computers or pictures (!) I could scan some pics I have from the pre=digital days; I reconstructed a couple Healeys (and an MGB) that would give some insight into the process...

... even in "those days" photo documentation was part of my routine!

 

[Bob_Spidell]

If I was any good with computers or pictures (!) I could scan some pics I have from the pre=digital days; I reconstructed a couple Healeys (and an MGB) that would give some insight into the process...

... even in "those days" photo documentation was part of my routine!

There are outfits that will scan and digitize for you. Here's one: https://www.gophoto.com


Disclaimer: I know/used to work with the founders of this company (NFI, unfortunately).

 

[tri_carb_healey]

depending on your ability to consume my wallet. Randy, GET DOWN HERE!!

 

[Randy Forbes]

There are outfits that will scan and digitize for you. Here's one: https://www.gophoto.com


Disclaimer: I know/used to work with the founders of this company (NFI, unfortunately).

Thanks, I will check the link.

I have a scanner, but I could probably restore a Healey (well, at least the portion that this thread subject deals with) faster than I could scan/edit the stack of pictures.

We all have our strengths & weaknesses :wink:

 

[Randy Forbes]

depending on your ability to consume my wallet. Randy, GET DOWN HERE!!

You have no idea how badly we want that to happen!

My wife wanted to be "in" by our 10th anniversary (today) so she would have a good reason not to attend jury duty (in Ohio) today. I dropped her off this morning, discovering that the Interstate (I-75) was closed due to an accident (ANOTHER person going the wrong way @ 3:30 AM; that's the 2nd time in a week!).

Don't worry, you'll know as sson as we arrive in Florida, because I'll put up some pictures of the cars in their new home